Not even Coach K could get Duke out of this one...

[OneLife Fan]

Crazy stuff!!

[bellcurve]

Did Natalee really meet an Aruban guy she met on the internet?! Wow. Never hear about that on NANCY GRACE. LOL.

[mitchFan]

Murder cases also got guilty verdicts before DNA, but now that there is DNA, when such evidence available it ensures that the guilty party is held accountable.

And if there is DNA evidence available in this case, then YES it is important. A rape may have occurred but the people who are being accused by the accuser are obviously not the guilty ones.

And so you are basically saying that because she is a black woman, that innocent men should go to jail? That makes no sense whatsoever, if they are guilty they should go to jail, DNA obviously proves otherwise.

[Danni]

The defense lawyers say that the DNA "exonerates" the players, but naturally they're going to put their own spin to make their clients look good. All that means is that the DNA was inconclusive. It could be due to many things. They used a condom. They cleaned her up after raping her. Hell, they may have used some other tool to assault her. One did threaten to use a broomstick on her All very feasible possibilities. The fact of the matter is that the rape kit confirms that sexual assault happened. Police also found everything that she said was at the house (her fingernails, her cell phone, her money, her bags, etc.). They just don't know who yet.

I am saying is that the media is painting her like another Tawana Brawley. However, I think she was raped that night, and if it goes the way that I fear it'll go those guys will go scot free. Want to know what that will say? That will say that any guy like them has the right to violate our bodies and use it in whatever way they choose to, and there's nothing that we can say or do about that. If that rape happened, they all need to be made an example of. All of them.

[mitchFan]

And like I said before, a rape may have happened, but the accused may not (and most likely aren't) be the guilty party. Just because she was at the house, doesn't prove that the ones accused are guilty.

Also, IMO this has nothing to do with race, if they are guilty they should go to jail. I doubt very much that they are guilty, and I think it will be proven in time.

As well there is that little saying about "innocent until proven guilty", which seems to be forgotten.

[Danni]

Race is a HUGE deal. It became one the minute they started spewing racial slurs at her and even went as far as saying "Thank your grandpa for my cotton shirt." If that's not a big deal then I don't know what is. Let's not forget the players here: rich, white men in a prestigious private school vs. poor black single mother who strips for a living and to pay for college at a substandard school. Race, by default, will be involved, especially in a society that deemed it okay for white men to use black women as their means of sexual gratification, regardless if the women wanted it or not (look up Celia's case if you don't believe me, as an example).

Look at the media portrayal. You and I both know that if it had been some white girl raped by black players, not only would their names and faces be posted all over the news, but their asses would be in jail right now.

[mitchFan]

So basically you are saying that everyone should look at it as the poor girl who has to strip vs. the rich powerful men, and not even give a moments thought to the fact that these same men could very well be innocent?

Like I said, if they are guilty they should have to pay. But it seems as if innocent until proven guilty is being pushed to the wayside. And this case has nothing IMO to do with Celia's case.

Also, if there was enough evidence, they would be in jail IMO. Sorry, but it seems as if you are immediately assuming guilt just based on the races alone.

I don't think they are guilty, not because of race or anything, but because the evidence does not connect. That's why IMO they are not in jail.

[Danni]

How about...no. What I am saying is that people need to look at the history of how white men have regarded black women, and take this [!@#$%^&*] a hell of a lot more seriously than they are right now. People need to see how the tensions of race, class, and gender tie into this because it is a hell of a lot more significant that you think. You're under the assumption that this justice system is fair, but it's not. This system helps people like those lax players and treats people like the accuser like they're [!@#$%^&*]. Money talks, and those guys have money. Regardless of whether or not they're guilty, they'll never spend a minute behind bars because mommy and daddy will just buy their way out.

The evidence sure as hell connects: Fingernails found at the scene, the missing items, the neighbor who overheard the slurs, the other dancer coming forward stating that she had no injuries nor was she drunk when they arrived at the house, the possibility of her being drugged, the rape kit, keeping silent until two weeks after the news broke out it. Hell, the email even damns them. Those guys had no intention on just having a little bit of fun with some strippers dancing. They planned on doing something horrible to whoever arrived. Why the hell did they lie about how many people were attending? So that there wouldn't be security. 46 big players against 2 dancers. Let's see who'd win that.

By the way, two players have just been indicted.

[KBT]

We obviously wont agree on this.....but I was saying race shouldnt be THE issue, but I know obviously it is which is what is wrong with this country. I dont care what color the female is whether she is green, purple, black, white I just want to know the facts if she was raped or not.

The girl could have easily lied knowing how much chaos this would cause or it could go the other way, with some Duke players knowing she was black and a stripper and have an easier time getting away with it, which is sad and makes me angry if that is true, hopefully the truth will eventually come out.

[Danni]

It shouldn't be an issue, but the minute those players started hurling racial epithets at her it became an issue. Hell, that's what the defense is using to make her look bad. "She's a black stripper. What on earth would innocent white 'men' do with a black stripper?" Also, considering how easily Tawana Brawley's come up throughout this case, I'd say that if she lied, she'd've gotten caught pretty quickly. However everything that the defense has used to claim that she's lying has a legit explanation that further proves that she was raped.

[Q Steph]

I'm honestly sonfused. I'm a stuanch supporter of victims rights. I applaud nay woman who has the strength of character and integrity to hold her attackers responsible. Her race and occupation should not be a factor as to whether or not her varacity is doubted.

However, I was more than disturbed when the DNA tests failed to yield any matches and rushed to the judgment that she was no more than a liar. Now that charges have been levied, my mind has changed again and I feel a strain of guilt for conclusing she was guilty of an ellaborate scheme when I habve heard claims of a cover up.

The grand jury must have some proof of this assault beyond the DNA.

Also, Bill O'Reilly is an [!@#$%^&*]. Before any evidence was collecte, he called the woman in question a "ho". The man has no tact whatsoever!

[Danni]

It was Rush Limbaugh who called her a ho though I wouldn't be surprised if Bill did as well.

I agree that her race and occupation shouldn't be a factor, but just look at what the lawyers are saying. Look at how the media's portraying her. She's nothing but a black stripper, so of course she's lying and she's out to get money. Now, what's happening is that they're making the Duke players look like the victims in this, when it is obvious from the get go that they're not innocent.

[mitchFan]

"Regardless of whether or not they're guilty, they'll never spend a minute behind bars because mommy and daddy will just buy their way out."

IMO, by this sentence alone you are condemning the players because they are white and they are rich. No one should condemn the accuser, but likewise the players shouldn't automatically be assumed guilty either.

And if they aren't guilty, then why should they spend a second behind bars?

Also, you said that if she was lying she would have been caught by now, not necessarily. Everyone must remember how long the farce that was the Kobe Bryant trial went on? Because she hasn't been caught in a lie yet, doesn't mean she is telling the truth.

[Q Steph]

Thanks for the clarification about Rush. He and Bill are such disgraces to Journalism.

As for the continual inference of her profession, she is also a student. Furthermore, no one has derided why these players choose to enjoy their downtime in the company of strippers. It cuts both ways.

I'm torn about the situation.

[Bree]

That's a point I brought up last night while discussing the case with my grandfather. I asked why aren't more people condeming the fact that the players chose to hire a stripper. People are quick to trash the stripper for her choice though. I guess the old saying "boys will be boys" applies here.

In all seriousness, Duke needed this to wake itself up to the fact that when a college chooses to segregate themselves, an incident like this will happen. It was only a matter of time. Now whether the community can come together and move on, or continue to play out their racial conflicts will be the real test.