Not even Coach K could get Duke out of this one...

[Q Steph]

Bree, I think the racial storm is about to hit Katrina size. Before the long awaited arrests, racial lines were clearly drawn. The majority of blacks believed the accuser; whites, more overwhemlingly villified her.

The case should be moved to another disctrict because the jury pool is obviously tainted with those who have rushed to judgment.

Furthermore, I'm just sure the Jesse Jackson's and the NAACP will soon arrive as calvary. It's an election year. The coach won't just be one sacrifice.

[KBT]

After reading into this and listening to the facts the news has given us thus far, it seems that the girl really was raped and I hope the Duke players get full punishment, but since they have money it may take a year or 2 before this trial is finished. One of the guys already posted bond at 400,000! Obviously the guy is loaded and will be harder to convinct unforunately.

On a side note: I dont hate many people, but I despise Jesse Jackson! The man is so blanantly racist its ridiculous!

And if Bill O'Reilly said that the stripper was a hoe, how would he know? Not all strippers are whores, Bo'R also grates on my nerves, some things he says are so close minded, but I do applaud him for speaking his mind no matter the situation.

[Q Steph]

Plot thickens; suspect may have alibi

April 18, 2006 — One of the two Duke University lacrosse players arrested on charges of raping and kidnapping a 27-year-old woman at an off-campus party had been arrested in the fall for assaulting a man in Washington, D.C., and the other was not present when the alleged crime occurred, sources told ABC News.

Multiple sources told ABC News that Reade Seligmann, 20, was not present in the house at the time the alleged victim says the crime occurred. Sources say this is established through different witness accounts, as well as cell phone and credit-card records.

The other man arrested, Collin Finnerty, 20, was charged with simple assault, along with two others, in November for allegedly punching a man in the face and body because he told them to "stop calling him gay and other derogatory names," according to the police report and court records.

Finnerty's North Carolina arrest could have an impact on the outcome of the D.C. case at an April 25 hearing, a source in the U.S. attorney's office prosecuting the case told ABC News Radio.

"The judge was going to iron out the community service that the three defendants … were going to do in the District of Columbia," the source said. "And now, obviously, this is going to create some issues there."

The source said the hearing will still take place "but now we will be discussing other issues."

Steven McCool, Finnerty's attorney in the D.C. case, told ABC News Finnerty had been charged with "simple assault," a misdemeanor. McCool reached an agreement with the U.S. attorney to have Finnerty placed in a "diversion program," he said, and the charge would be expunged if Finnerty completed 25 hours of community service and did not get arrested again.

McCool said the U.S. attorney would now have to decide whether or not to go to trial in this case. Legal sources unrelated to the case cautioned, however, that the outcome of the D.C. case will probably depend on what happens with the charges in North Carolina.

McCool said he has not received official notice of the April 25 hearing, but he was aware it could happen.

Whether the D.C. incident would be admissible in the North Carolina court remains to be seen. The judge must always weigh the probative value of evidence concerning a previous conviction — if Finnerty does get convicted for the misdemeanor assault — versus the way it would prejudice the jury.

Indictments against Finnerty and Seligmann were unsealed Tuesday. Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong would not discuss details, but did reveal he was pursuing charges against a third man.

"It had been my hope to charge all three of the assailants at the same time, but the evidence available to me at this moment does not permit that," Nifong said. "Investigation into the identity of the third assailant will continue in the hope that he can also be identified with certainty."

ABC News has obtained the district attorney's motion from April 12 to seal indictments that claims, for both Finnerty and Seligmann, that "the severity of the punishment he faces create a substantial risk that he would attempt to flee the jurisdiction … if he learned that an indictment had been returned against him.''

ABC News also has obtained Durham County Superior Court receipts showing both men were freed after posting $400,000 cash bonds.

Seligmann posted bond shortly after his arrest, and his attorney waived his court appearance. Finnerty also posted bond and made a brief appearance in Superior Court shortly before 11 a.m. wearing a jacket and tie. The next court appearance for both players was set for May 15.

Attorney: 'Absolutely Innocent'

Both Seligmann, a 6-foot-1 sophomore from Essex Fells, N.J., and Finnerty, a 6-foot-3 sophomore from Garden City, N.Y., were in handcuffs when they stepped out of a police cruiser before dawn.

Seligmann is "absolutely innocent," said his attorney, Kirk Osborn. "He's doing great. That's all I have to say."

Asked what led to the indictments, Osborn said: "Apparently it was a photographic identification. And we all know how reliable that is."

A message left at the Seligmann home by The Associated Press was not returned Tuesday nor was a message left on the answering machine at the Finnerty home in Garden City, N.Y. No one answered the door at the house, which sits in a cul-de-sac of million-dollar homes. A lacrosse net and equipment could be seen on the yard, which abuts a golf course.

"The next jury will hear the entire story, which includes our evidence, and we're confident that these young men will be found to be innocent," said Finnerty's attorney, Bill Cotter. "We're surprised that anybody got indicted, quite frankly."

The alleged victim, who is black, is the mother of two children and was hired to dance at the party. She told police she was attacked March 13 by three white men in a bathroom at the party held by the lacrosse team. The racially charged allegations have led to near daily protest rallies.

The school canceled the highly ranked team's season and accepted the resignation of coach Mike Pressler after the release of a vulgar and graphic e-mail that was sent by an uncharged team member shortly after the alleged assault.

Defense attorneys have urged Nifong to drop the case, saying DNA tests failed to connect any of the 46 team members tested to the alleged victim.

Nifong has said 75 percent to 80 percent of rape prosecutions lack DNA evidence. According to court records, a medical examination of the woman found injuries consistent with rape.

Defense attorneys have said time-stamped photos taken the night of the party show that the alleged victim was injured and impaired before she arrived.

The charges come two weeks before Nifong, appointed to the job last year after nearly three decades as a lawyer in the district attorney's office, is up for election. On Monday, he repeatedly declined to comment on the case.

Disciplinary Findings

Seligmann is one of five lacrosse players at Duke from the Delbarton School, an all-boys Catholic prep school in Morristown, N.J. Delbarton won three state lacrosse titles while Seligmann was at the school, but he saw limited time on the field after arriving at Duke. He didn't start any games this season, playing in six and scoring one goal.

"Knowing Reade Seligmann as well as we do here at Delbarton, I believe him innocent of the charges included in the indictment issued yesterday in North Carolina," the Rev. Luke L. Travers, headmaster at Delbarton, said in a statement.

Finnerty, who attended Chaminade High School, also did not start any games this season. He played in five, scoring two goals with an assist. His brother is a senior at Duke. Finnerty and Seligmann lived in the same residence hall at Duke, but they are not roommates.

Duke, which played in the national title game last season and was considered a favorite for the NCAA title this year, was 6-2 before the school canceled the team's season.

School officials said Monday that the lacrosse coach was warned last year that his players had too many violations of the campus judicial code and he needed to "get them in line."

Duke athletic director Joe Alleva said the university's executive vice president reviewed the lacrosse team's disciplinary record last year, then discussed his findings with Alleva.

"He said there were too many incidents, but there's not enough incidents to make a drastic change in the program at this point in time," Alleva told The Herald-Sun of Durham. Alleva told the coach "his team was under the microscope, and he had to do everything he could to get them in line and to not have any more behavior problems."

The review by Tallman Trask III, Duke's executive vice president, was spurred by reports of "boorish behavior" by the lacrosse team, Alleva said.

Sue Wasiolek, Duke's dean of students and assistant vice president for student affairs, said the review showed the lacrosse team had a "disproportionate" number of violations of the campus judicial code. None was particularly serious, but administrators were concerned about the cumulative record and the fact that some players had several violations, she said.

[Danni]

No, I'm just telling the truth about how the system works in this country. If you're rich and white, you've got it pretty easy. Hell, it's to the point where you'd think that you're above the law. It shouldn't be that way, but I'm not naive. That's how it is. Those players aren't the "good kids" that the defense is making them out to be. Hell a third of the team has had some prior arrest, and all that came of it was a slap on the wrist. If I did the same thing, I'd be in jail.

I condemn these players because all the evidence shows that they INTENTIONALLY committed an act of violence and hate towards that woman. They took away her dignity and her humanity, and I want them to pay for it. If justice was really fair, and they were found guilty, they should spend 20 years in prison. What will really happen, unfortunately, will be a display of how flawed our system is, and how racism will still always be in the forefront.

[mitchFan]

I still say that you are wishing for them to pay for something that with each passing day is being proven that they didn't do and had no part whatsoever in.

No they shouldn't be above the law, but they shouldn't be condemned either, you know it's that innocent until proven guilty thing again, remember? And FYI, not everyone who is rich and white think that they are above the law. IMO, the race card is being played way too often.

[Danni]

Don't you dare start with that "race card" crap, when the issue of race is a big deal. It always has been, and it always will be. It is especially in the forefront with this case where you have white men charged with raping a black woman. The media is portraying these guys like there some good kids, just having a grand ole party. "They're good kids, what on earth would they want to do with a black stripper?" Let's not forget how easily Tawana Brawley's name has come up throughout this case. Do you not see the blatant attempt to discredit the victim and paint these guys as "good kids"? All the while, the only thing that they focus on about the victim is that she's a stripper.

I don't know what news reports you've been reading, but everything is pointing to them committing that crime. Timestamp on photos? Easily photoshopped. The bruises and demeanor? Dancer 2 has spoken out and said that there were NO injuries on the victim prior to coming into the house and suspected that they drugged her. You cannot tell me that they had no intention on committing some crime when they lie to the company about the number of people in attendance. Better yet, McFayden's email. There's no way in hell that can be interpreted as a joke. That shows me that those guys are sick enough to do some [!@#$%^&*] like that and think that they can get away with it. The DNA results? Don't mean a thing. If DA's can get guilty verdicts without the use of DNA, he can certainly do it now. The question is not whether or not a rape happened, but rather who were the three players who did it.

[mitchFan]

And don't you dare tell me what to post and what not to post. The race card is not crap since it seems you are constantly pulling it out and waving it around. Just as there are people that are automatically condemning the victim because of her race, you are doing the exact same thing IMO. Neither side should be condemned for their race, their job, or how much money they have whether they be rich or poor. Anyone who is just looking at the racial aspect of it, is not objective in the slightest IMO.

Also, yes cases have been solved without DNA evidence, but there is DNA evidence available, DNA evidence that don't match anyone on the team. So, yeah in this case the DNA evidence should play a big part into it.

I'm not saying that the players are good guys or whatever, but from what I've read (and it's been the same news reports everyone else is reading), I think the guys on the team are innocent. If it is proven that they are not, then as I've said before, they should be put in jail.

But let me ask you a question: What will you say if it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that these guys are totally innocent, and the girl is a liar?

[Bree]

Okay, things are getting heated in here, so let's calm it down, before I have to close this thread.

[mitchFan]

Sorry Bree, I'll watch what I post from now on. I hope I haven't crossed any lines. Thanks.

[Danni]

The problem is that you can't take the racial aspect out of it. Racism is in EVERYWHERE in this country. Hell, this country was founded on one group's belief of their superiority to others. It's in how there was all of this media coverage on Natalee Holloway, but none on Ramona Moore's murder. It's in how it took three days for police to even start investigating this case, but Kobe was arrested three days after the accuser cried rape. It's in how the black teens from the Central Park rape were pressured into confessing a crime they didn't commit. It's in how pundits can call someone a "ghetto slut" or a "ho", and basically get away with it. You, as a white man, don't have to be aware of it because it's not going to affect you. It's not going to hinder you at all. You benefit from it, whether you realize it or not. I, as a black woman, have to live with it for my entire life.

The defense attorney is saying that it doesn't match anyone on the team. What matters is who is saying what. It's funny how the main thing that's ignored is that this whole "DNA results clears team" is coming from the defense. It's not coming from the All that means is that the DNA result was inconclusive. Inconclusive results happen most of the time. It was almost downright expected to be inconclusive. It doesn't clear them of anything. If it did, then Nifong would have no choice but to end the case, but he didn't because something heinous happened in that house that night. Hell, I imagine that even he, in the beginning, thought that she was lying at some point.

You think that I'm not worried about the possibility of lying? I see it every time Tawana Brawley's mentioned. If she is lying, then that's one hell of a scheme, and she'd make every black woman who's suffered at the hands of a white man look worse than they already feel. Lord knows, white people would never let us live it down. However, I truly believe that those players raped her, and I believe that they intended on doing so.

[mitchFan]

FYI, I'm a white woman, not a white man.

"Lord knows, white people would never let us live it down."

This sentence here makes it seem as if you think the whole population of white people are racist and out to get you. GMAB, there are racist white people just as there are racist black people. And is that statement all you care about or think about if it actually is proven one day that she was lying and innocent people almost went to jail.

You are actively condemning a whole group of people! I am not looking at the race at all. Also, I said the same thing about Kobe Bryant when the evidence started coming out, so to me race has nothing to do with it.

[Ryan]

Alright. Opinions are becoming very heated now. Everyone has a right to an opinion and has the right to voice such. In such a controversial story as this one, people may take what it said out of context and make it more than what it really is. Bree has already warned that the thread will be closed if fighting continues. We can have intense discussions without offending anyone.

[mitchFan]

Also, if she is lying, it's more than one hell of a scheme...it's a crime IMO.

[Danni]

I apologize for getting the gender wrong. I couldn't tell through the username.

There are white people who are not racist. I disagree in regards to saying that black people are racist. They can be prejudiced, but not racist. In order for one to be racist is for them to not only have prejudice, but to have enough power to oppress the subject of said prejudice. What is a straight out fact is that white priviledge exists here, and it's in play majorly.

The reality is the fact that the Tawana Brawley case was brought up the second the Defense Attorneys claimed that the DNA results "cleared the players". Hell, they themselves were bringing it up and people who side with those players are just eating it up because it's so easy to believe that a black woman is nothing but a liar. It's just downright unfathomable to them that not only would those players even want to have a black woman dance for them, it'd be just as unfathomable that they'd rape her. That woman is just a scheming, gold-digger out to ruin lives. Look at how they're being painted as sympathetic on CNN or MSNBC. The other dancer's comments that basically negates everything that the defense has been claiming are nowhere to be seen. I even read an interview with the victim's ex-husband and her father on the New Observer. Why isn't that on CNN or MSNBC? Why is it that the ONLY thing that they're talking about with her is her criminal history and her profession? Why aren't they focusing on the fact that she is a mother and that she's going to school now? I will tell you why. It's because the media does not want her to appear human.

I'm not condeming a whole group of people. I condemn those players for being entitlement assholes. Right off the bat, they were entitlement assholes, and Duke perpetuated that until it backfired on them. Fifteen players with arrest records, and they let it slide. Race shouldn't be an issue, but those players made it an issue. If they hadn't said what they said, then the racial aspect of this case most likely wouldn't be as significant as it is today.

Maybe it's just my thinking, but if I was lying about being raped, but I knew that I could get them in trouble, wouldn't it be simpler to go with blackmail and extortion? It takes away the media outlets. It takes away the opportunity of being judged by millions of people. After all, I'd be sure that mommy and daddy would not approve of their upstanding citizen of a son cavorting with an underling like a black stripper. They'd probably pay a pretty penny to keep her quiet.

[NaVell J. Lee]

I agree w/ Ryan's standpoint on this issue. I do like controversial issues, but sometimes, things could be said that might send off the wrong impression and/or offend others by it. Yes, there are going to be difference of opinions, but w/ those opinions, try not to offend anyone by them.