What do you all think of the books? I have a few. I don't think I've ever fully read one, although I've read parts. I wonder how the tone changes in them as the years go by. I read one from the late '00s or early '10s where a big rich man takes over a lot of Cabot Cove and really pushes buttons when he takes over the 4th of July celebrations, complete with his nepo baby daughter wanting to be heavily involved in the patriotic play, and Jessica noting with polite disdain that the band the guy brought in to play has <gasp> long hair </gasp>.

4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Jessica noting with polite disdain that the band the guy brought in to play has <gasp> long hair </gasp>.

Wow, that sounds awfully judgmental of her, lol.

On 5/23/2024 at 5:50 PM, kalbir said:

Even though it's been almost 40 years since the show began, it doesn't feel outdated and there's still that feeling of comfort and warmth when watching it.

ICAM.  I made the same observation last week while taking yet another trip through the MSW-verse on Pluto TV.  Even the latter seasons, when the show becomes less folksy in order to appeal to a wider demographic, have a feeling of warmth to them.  Again, that's due to Angela Lansbury's presence and refusal to play Jessica Fletcher as anything other than a sensible, down-to-earth, non-judgmental everywoman.  I mean, it's a little too obvious how or why so many younger people are so "down" with Miss Fletcher, but it's not as much of a stretch to believe that as you would think.

As we all have said before, on numerous occasions, Les Moonves' treatment of Lansbury and her show was nothing short of abominable.  I won't argue that MSW felt tired by the 12th season and probably needed to end, but after all Lansbury had done to keep CBS afloat through some very lean years for the network, she deserved to wrap up her show on her terms, not Moonves'.

14 hours ago, Khan said:

after all Lansbury had done to keep CBS afloat through some very lean years for the network, she deserved to wrap up her show on her terms, not Moonves'.

100% this. Angela Lansbury and Murder, She Wrote deserved to have a proper farewell and not the sabotage that Les Moonves inflicted. He will forever be on my s--- list for that.

Angela was sweet and unassuming yet savage at the same time. Her most savage moments IMO:

The shade towards the new hotness Miami Vice and proceeding to clean sweep them. Angela was more elegant and classy than savage with her shade though (referring to Miami Vice as Miami Heat).

Beating the diva of all divas of 1980s primetime soaps Joan Collins to become the highest-rated drama across the broadcast networks. I was impressed that Joan Collins posted a memoriam to Angela on her social media, that was very classy of her to do so.

Becoming CBS's highest-rated scripted show and knocking big bad Larry Hagman off the throne at CBS.

The episodes in the final season that shaded both Friends and CBS. Angela did not give a f--- about being elegant and classy with her shade. She was hurt and rightfully so and I don't blame her for reacting the way that she did.

Edited June 25, 20241 yr by kalbir

MSW got a brief mention on Neighbours last week. Erinsborough had a spate of poisonings, and a very impulsive and messy young woman, Holly, (wrongly) decided the podcaster endlessly "reporting" on the crime was responsible and tried to get evidence against the podcaster. She ended up pepper spraying the podcaster and got arrested before charges were dropped. Her father, Karl, warned her against her "Jessica Fletcher" activities. Holly's response was, "Who's Jessica Fletcher?"

Edited June 25, 20241 yr by DRW50

7 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Her father, Karl, warned her against her "Jessica Fletcher" activities. Holly's response was, "Who's Jessica Fletcher?"

Obviously, this Karl person and whoever her mother is have failed Holly as parents.

8 minutes ago, kalbir said:

The episodes in the final season that shaded both Friends and CBS. Angela did not give a f--- about being elegant and classy with her shade. She was hurt and rightfully so and I don't blame her for reacting the way that she did.

Neither do I.  "Murder Among Friends" is almost TOO painful to watch (or, rather, rewatch) because you can tell that the knives were out, lol.

As I said before, I won't argue that MSW probably needed to end after S12.  Many episodes that season feel like complete retreads of stories told in previous years - in some cases, right down to using the same guest stars! - and three episodes in particular - "Something Foul in Flappieville," "What You Don't Know Can Kill You" and "Mrs. Parker's Revenge" - I would rank as the series' absolute worst, lower than even some of the more abysmal bookend episodes from S's 6 and 7! 

But, if I had been in Les Moonves' position, I would have gone to Lansbury and Universal before the start of the season and levelled with them.  I would have said, "Look, you've gotten us through some rough times in the past, and we appreciate that, but I need to take CBS in a different, more youthful direction and I don't see MSW being a part of that.  So, let's you and me sit down right now and decide how we want MSW to end this year.  Rest assured, Ms. Lansbury, we're not gonna move you from Sunday nights or ask you to do anything with your show that's too crazy, but what else could we do to ensure that MSW goes out with a bang?"

For starters, maybe they could've brought back Peter S. Fischer as a consultant to ensure that the mysteries in the final year were some of the best yet.  He'd been away from the show for four years; maybe his creative batteries had been recharged enough to allow him some fresh ideas.

Or maybe, if there was a list of actors that they'd always wanted to appear but, for some reason, never could land, this might be the season to make a real, concerted effort to land them.  Actors such as Dick Van Dyke, Mary Tyler Moore, Julie Andrews, James Garner, Alan Alda, Carol Burnett, and the list goes on.  If it means digging a little deeper into their pocketbooks to pay these people, then do it!  It wouldn't have been the first time!

I might have even suggested making a real event out of the series finale, complete with a one-hour retrospective that would allow various people to talk about the impact that the show has had, especially in regards to how older people are depicted in television today; and a final, two hour mystery that (as ads promise) would be Jessica Fletcher's most baffling mystery yet.

35 minutes ago, Khan said:

Neither do I.  "Murder Among Friends" is almost TOO painful to watch (or, rather, rewatch) because you can tell that the knives were out, lol.

I loved that episode, mainly because I never liked Friends anyway.

I like your ideas for a Murder, She Wrote final season farewell. Sadly Les Moonves didn't allow that to happen.

35 minutes ago, Khan said:

I need to take CBS in a different, more youthful direction

What we got was Everybody Loves Raymond, CSI, NCIS, The Big Bang Theory. All shows with a masculine energy, but that's neither here nor there for this thread.

Edited June 25, 20241 yr by kalbir

9 hours ago, kalbir said:

I like your ideas for a Murder, She Wrote final season farewell. Sadly Les Moonves didn't allow that to happen.

Another thing: if I had been Les Moonves, I would have encouraged them to try and sell the show to another network, like how "Matlock" switched from NBC to ABC.  IDK if the ratings would have remained as high on another network, but if Lansbury wasn't ready to move on yet, it certainly wouldn't have hurt to give her that option.

12 hours ago, kalbir said:

What we got was Everybody Loves Raymond, CSI, NCIS, The Big Bang Theory. All shows with a masculine energy, but that's neither here nor there for this thread.

I think it was Linda Bloodworth-Thomason who remarked about how strange it was to see CBS turn from a network that celebrated independent women (Lucy and Ethel, Mary and Rhoda, Maude, Murphy Brown, Cagney & Lacey, etc.) into "Dead Hooker TV" or something along those lines.

Edited June 25, 20241 yr by Khan

On 4/4/2024 at 8:57 PM, soapfan770 said:

I recall the movie flopped in the ratings but it didn’t deter CBS from ordering two more MSW movies. 

IIRC, CBS signed Angela Lansbury, Corymore Productions and Universal to a deal to produce several TV movies as compensation for cancelling MSW.  However, after "South by Southwest" failed in the ratings - a failure that I chalk up to poor promotion - Team Lansbury/Universal had a helluva time coming up with a story for the second movie that CBS liked; and for a time, it looked as if the rest of the deal would be cancelled.  Then, Lansbury/Corymore contacted former writer/producer J. Michael Straczynski, who wrote "A Story to Die For," which did well enough for CBS to green-light the last two movies.

Edited June 25, 20241 yr by Khan
I got "A Story to Die For" and "The Last Free Man" mixed up.

6 hours ago, Khan said:

Angela Lansbury SAVED CBS in the '80's and '90's!

Yes she did. I don't think anyone thought sweet unassuming yet savage Angela Lansbury would be the one to carry CBS primetime on their back through some pretty awful years from the late 1980s to the mid-1990s.

It's hard to believe the 40th anniversary of the premiere of Murder, She Wrote is three weeks away. 

When Murder, She Wrote ended in May 1996, it was CBS's 6th longest-running primetime drama series, after Gunsmoke, Lassie, Dallas, Knots Landing, original Hawaii Five-O. Since Murder, She Wrote ended, five CBS primetime drama series have had longer runs: NCIS, CSI: Crime Scene Investigation, Criminal Minds, NCIS: Los Angeles, Blue Bloods.

4 hours ago, kalbir said:

I don't think anyone thought sweet unassuming yet savage Angela Lansbury would be the one to carry CBS primetime on their back through some pretty awful years from the late 1980s to the mid-1990s.

The way I've heard even Angela Lansbury herself tell it, hardly anyone outside of Broadway (or old Hollywood) knew who she was before MSW.  Of course, I think she was being her usual, modest self.  (British actors, I find, tend to be modest and self-deprecating, lol).  But, yeah, I do think expectations were somewhat guarded at the start.  At best, CBS hoped MSW would retain enough of "60 Minutes"'s audience to help them win Sunday nights.  They certainly never expected it to be the one show that kept the network afloat across two decades!

What CBS failed to take fully into account, however, is one, very basic philosophy: that television, as a medium, thrives on intimacy and authenticity.  The more "real" and welcoming an actor on a TV series comes across, the more the audience will be drawn to them.  Viewers took to J.B. Fletcher, and to Angela Lansbury, because she represented to them (and still represents to them) the relative or neighbor they either knew or wish they did.

At the same time, MSW, along with the OTHER surprise hit of the '80's, NBC's "The Golden Girls," helped lay waste to the ridiculous notion that women of a certain age were nothing more than doddering grandmas who sat at home all day, draped in afghans and drooling and wetting themselves on the regular.  J.B. Fletcher proved to a lot of folks out there that the second half of one's life can be just as adventurous as the first - a sort of ambassadorship that Lansbury herself clearly took very seriously.

Angela always maintained that Madison Ave, Nielsen, and CBS misunderstood the demographics of the show and why MSW was such a massive success on Sunday nights. I tend to think she's absolutely correct - like soaps, I think many in my generation watched alongside older relatives and it became a sort of staple in our Sunday night ritual, lol. 

Nielsen might have told a different story, but the fact Lansbury once had the highest Q rating in all of Primetime also meant she had some broad appeal outside of just the grannies and people in the nursing homes...

4 hours ago, kalbir said:

It's hard to believe the 40th anniversary of the premiere of Murder, She Wrote is three weeks away.

Indeed - and yet, I think it's just as popular today, in this stream-verse that we live in, as it ever was.  In fact, I think the case could be made that it's MORE popular today than it was when it first aired, on account of people who probably were too young to have watched it back then, but who have embraced it nevertheless, without any of the stigmas that were attached to it BITD.

2 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Angela always maintained that Madison Ave, Nielsen, and CBS misunderstood the demographics of the show and why MSW was such a massive success on Sunday nights. I tend to think she's absolutely correct - like soaps, I think many in my generation watched alongside older relatives and it became a sort of staple in our Sunday night ritual, lol. 

Nielsen might have told a different story, but the fact Lansbury once had the highest Q rating in all of Primetime also meant she had some broad appeal outside of just the grannies and people in the nursing homes...

ICAM with everything here.  At least NBC recognized right away that viewers of all ages loved "The Golden Girls" and capitalized on it by spinning off "Empty Nest."  But CBS just assumed that only "old people" watched MSW, which probably explains why their one spinoff, the very good "The Law and Harry McGraw," got treated so badly that it almost made Peter S. Fischer quit.

Edited September 10, 20241 yr by Khan

1 hour ago, Khan said:

The more "real" and welcoming an actor on a TV series comes across, the more the audience will be drawn to them.  Viewers took to J.B. Fletcher, and to Angela Lansbury, because she represented to them (and still represents to them) the relative or neighbor they either knew or wish they did.

Angela Lansbury had a presence that radiated comfort and warmth, and that's what drew viewers of all walks of life to Murder, She Wrote. Look at how much the world around us changed during Murder, She Wrote's run. We sought comfort and warmth at that time, and Murder, She Wrote gave us that.

1 hour ago, BetterForgotten said:

Angela always maintained that Madison Ave, Nielsen, and CBS misunderstood the demographics of the show and why MSW was such a massive success on Sunday nights. I tend to think she's absolutely correct - like soaps, I think many in my generation watched alongside older relatives and it became a sort of staple in our Sunday night ritual, lol. 

Nielsen might have told a different story, but the fact Lansbury once had the highest Q rating in all of Primetime also meant she had some broad appeal outside of just the grannies and people in the nursing homes...

Murder, She Wrote was the perfect show for families to watch together and unwind to on a Sunday night when homework was done, dinner was done, and everything was organized for the upcoming school and work week.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

Indeed - and yet, I think it's just as popular today, in this stream-verse that we live in, as it ever was.  In fact, I think the case could be made that it's MORE popular today than it was when it first aired, on account of people who probably were too young to have watched it back then, but who have embraced it nevertheless, without any of the stigmas that were attached to it BITD.

Murder, She Wrote was a show that I took for granted as a kid/teen, but I appreciate it so much more as an adult. I think it will live on forever in syndication, DVDs, streaming.