4 hours ago, Videnbas said:

This may seem a random question, but... is anyone else here interested in opera?

I remember a discussion a while back about character archetypes in B&B, and the other night when I was watching clips of Mozart's opera Don Giovanni (Don Juan), it suddenly hit me.

Early B&B of 1987-1988 features EVERY SINGLE ONE of the characters in Don Giovanni.

Don Giovanni (high social status, playboy, arrogant, charming, keeps a list of women in a little book) - Ridge
Leporello (low social status, employed by Don Giovanni, loyal to his boss but dreams of being his equal in status, knows about the little book) - Rocco
Donna Elvira (was seduced by Don Giovanni and then dumped by him, is fiercely bitter but still attracted to him) - Margo
Donna Anna (high social status, Don Giovanni snuck into her room at night and seduced her, it is unclear if this was with or without her consent) - Caroline
The Commendatore (high social status, Donna Anna's father, very protective of his daughter, Don Giovanni's nemesis) - Bill Spencer
Don Ottavio (high social status, Donna Anna's fiancé, loyal, gentle and supportive of her) - Thorne
Zerlina (low social status, starts out as a happily engaged and innocent young girl but is seduced by Don Giovanni and dumps her fiancé in order to be with him) - Brooke
Masetto (low social status, decent man who gets dumped by his fiancée because of her fascination for the attractive and rich Don Giovanni) - Dave

Of course, the opera has a different story, but the characters and several plot points are very similar. This is probably not intentional, but it's interesting nevertheless because it proves the archetypal nature of the early B&B characters.

If Rocco ever sings "Night & Day, I Slave Away" while Ridge seduces Caroline, we'll know they copied, lol.  (Ridge does seem pretty closely modeled on Don Juan.) 

Team Caroline or Brooke anyone?

Team Brooke. Caroline is just so... spoiled and has everything coming so easy. I just don't like her... Brooke at least has to be conniving and crafty to get ahead. 

1 hour ago, Soapfan8 said:

Team Caroline or Brooke anyone?

Caroline coz she matured over her 3 years on the show and didn’t took the sh’t anymore! Brooke never grew up 

Team Caroline by far.. I am not as far in watching as all of you are, but Brooke's reasoning and actions are just not right, IMO. Then again, I hate Ridge and I would never want to see Caroline with him, so I guess Brooke and Ridge can be together... 

I was team Caroline. I felt so bad for her that she was manipulated by two people she trusted the most, her father Bill and her one-time best friend Brooke. 

43 minutes ago, kalbir said:

I was team Caroline. I felt so bad for her that she was manipulated by two people she trusted the most, her father Bill and her one-time best friend Brooke. 

Can I ask how did you see Bill's actions as manipulation? I am curious since I have seen many people say this and I just don't see it.

Also, you do not list Ridge as someone how hurt her and she trusted him a lot. 

I think Caroline's too good for anyone else on the show.  Ridge is garbage, Thorne's a wuss, her dad's mean, and her "best friend" is a tramp.  

Can we elevate the discussion, please? It was nice to actually discuss the stories, the music clothes, shooting style, etc. and not descend to the clownery present in YouTube comments. It would just be nice to avoid the Stan wars that too often diminish the daytime drama.

4 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Can we elevate the discussion, please? It was nice to actually discuss the stories, the music clothes, shooting style, etc. and not descend to the clownery present in YouTube comments. It would just be nice to avoid the Stan wars that too often diminish the daytime drama.

No one was having a stan war..I don’t see anyone arguing or going back and forth we are just discussing character preferences.

22 minutes ago, Soapfan8 said:

No one was having a stan war..I don’t see anyone arguing or going back and forth we are just discussing character preferences.

That's often how it starts but hopefully not this time, I guess?

Ah well, it was nice while it lasted.

2 hours ago, Manny said:

Can I ask how did you see Bill's actions as manipulation? I am curious since I have seen many people say this and I just don't see it.

Also, you do not list Ridge as someone how hurt her and she trusted him a lot. 

Bill exposed Ridge's cheating to Caroline just before the wedding and then pushed her towards Thorne, whom she didn't really love. That's pretty manipulative to me. 

Yes, Ridge did hurt Caroline but I didn't list him as his actions weren't manipulative in the way Bill and Brooke were.

20 hours ago, Broderick said:

If Rocco ever sings "Night & Day, I Slave Away" while Ridge seduces Caroline, we'll know they copied, lol.  (Ridge does seem pretty closely modeled on Don Juan.) 

LOL, yeah, that would be a dead give away!

Yes, it was Ridge's obvious similarities to Don Juan that took me down the rabbit hole (especially when the show started repeatedly mentioning his "little black book"). And then as I was preparing a lecture om Mozart I revisited a couple of scenes from the opera and I suddenly started seeing B&B characters in all the roles and it was an eerily good fit.

18 hours ago, Soapfan8 said:

Team Caroline or Brooke anyone?

I expected to be Team Brooke, as I always have been, but watching these early episodes really opened my eyes. She's very bold in her choices and I wish they'd retained her assertiveness from these early episodes. She knows her choices aren't always right, but there is always a reason that makes it worth it in her eyes. That's easier to take than her current crying because she slipped in another mans lap.

10 hours ago, kalbir said:

Bill exposed Ridge's cheating to Caroline just before the wedding and then pushed her towards Thorne, whom she didn't really love. That's pretty manipulative to me. 

Yes, Ridge did hurt Caroline but I didn't list him as his actions weren't manipulative in the way Bill and Brooke were.

I agree that Bill's timing was terrible. He should have told her the news earlier (as soon as he found out himself, I would say). But I guess I don't see that as a manipulation. I would be grateful to my father if he uncovered the truth that my partner/spouse was unfaithful to me.

He was pushing for Thorne to get with Caroline, sure, but it was finally Caroline who chose to be with Thorne, even though she clearly did not love him (at least not the same way she loved Ridge).