I remember that daytime writers' panel I attended years ago with Claire Labine, David Kriezman, and Shelly Altman, among others. The writers, Altman in particular, were openly hostile to the idea of writer development programs or even giving advice to budding soap writers because they were fearful of losing their lucrative jobs in a shrinking, dying industry. 

3 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

I remember that daytime writers' panel I attended years ago with Claire Labine, David Kriezman, and Shelly Altman, among others. The writers, Altman in particular, were openly hostile to the idea of writer development programs or even giving advice to budding soap writers because they were fearful of losing their lucrative jobs in a shrinking, dying industry. 

 

Well it seems that they can go to nighttime now, once they lose their daytime job!!! But I would love them to work under a black person though.

6 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

I remember that daytime writers' panel I attended years ago with Claire Labine, David Kriezman, and Shelly Altman, among others. The writers, Altman in particular, were openly hostile to the idea of writer development programs or even giving advice to budding soap writers because they were fearful of losing their lucrative jobs in a shrinking, dying industry. 

 

Welp, there's the answer! I wonder how many other soaps were lost/cancelled since you attended that writer's panel.

 

Anyone familiar with the Biblical story of the 3 servants and what happened to the one who failed to invest and instead hoarded his coins? Daytime is reaping what they've sown.

 

It also answers the question of why daytime has such a difficult time attracting new viewers.  Shonda Rhimes definitely doesn't have that problem but look at her cast, look at the people behind the camera...

Edited December 11, 20169 yr by DramatistDreamer

21 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

It also answers the question of why daytime has such a difficult time attracting new viewers.  Shonda Rhimes definitely doesn't have that problem but look at her cast, look at the people behind the camera...

 

If you look at all the black shows at night time, they always diverse. & do much better in the ratings. 

Edited December 11, 20169 yr by MoTheGreat

9 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

Welp, there's the answer! I wonder how many other soaps were lost/cancelled since you attended that writer's panel.

 

Anyone familiar with the Biblical story of the 3 servants and what happened to the one who failed to invest and instead hoarded his coins? Daytime is reaping what they've sown.

 

It also answers the question of why daytime has such a difficult time attracting new viewers.  Shonda Rhimes definitely doesn't have that problem but look at her cast, look at the people behind the camera...

It was 2007, so it was before the ATWT/GL and the AMC/OLTL cancellations.

6 minutes ago, MoTheGreat said:

 

If you look at all the black shows at night time, they always diverse. I do much better in the ratings. 

 

You'd think that after 20 years of losses, Daytime would've figured that out but it's the same ones at the trough who are unwilling to look for talent wherever it may be that have reduced the industry to what exists today.

 

Maybe this needs to be added to the narrative along with blaming reality TV and OJ and women in the workplace for losses in ratings.

4 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

It was 2007, so it was before the ATWT/GL and the AMC/OLTL cancellations.

 

Wow, that says so much about where the mindset of the people in the daytime soap biz are.

Edited December 11, 20169 yr by DramatistDreamer

Oh how the times have changed. I remember when I first started watching Y&R and pointed out that "Mamie" was as close as modern day television could get to mammy and getting ripped apart online ("Ummm it's just a name! Hello, Mamie Eisenhower???"). Which...no. Bill Bell knew what the fcuk he was doing.

 

I will not tolerate Hillary (who I barely KNOW) being insulted and cast aside for a bunch of white people (and that includes Lily's high yellow ass) so if the show keeps up what they did Friday I'm out. 

 

I mean seriously Sharon kept a kid from his father for a year and Hillary is evil for not showing the "right" version of the story. These people are totally focused on the wrong level of selfish here.

 

And I'm waiting for Devon to act like he likes his WIFE even a little bit. He seems almost repulsed by her and no other married couple gets that treatment.

13 hours ago, ajsp35801 said:

There is nothing unique about Mariah versus Hilary. it's the beautiful, glamorous, intelligent, perfect, mean popular girl versus the down to earth, average looking, big hearted girl next door. I've seen this story a thousand times before. It's common trope in every genre. We know the end result. The mean girl loses all to girl next door. The man, the job, the social standing, and popularity. I see how this benefits Mariah. I don't see how this story does a damn thing for Hilary but make her hated even more. it's designed for that. And I resent the hell out of the show for it. 

 

The only thing Hilary probably isn't in jeopardy of losing is Devon. He has the color barrier keeping him from being Mariah'a prize. I figure that's why the show 

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cast this 32 year old white male journalist. They'll have no problems having the white guy sleep with Hilary and cast her away for Mariah.

 

That's who they will fight over. Wonder where that will leave Devon. Maybe 

 

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Thats why they are casting this 25 year old singer.

 

To keep devon occupied while Hilary plays loser to Mariah's big rom com story. I do not like this move  I have no interest in watching Hilary play second banana to Mariah. 

It may be a common trope but it's one that works and it's one that I'm 100% here for. Hilary doesn't have to be the collateral damage in all of this, they can delve deeper into what is motivating her to act out this way. Someone on this show should be a vixen, we don't have any right now. 

11 hours ago, DeeeDee said:

She's not knocking the story to come.

 

She's making excellent predictions of where the current storylines are headed based on Daytime's unabashed racism.

Racism? Really? Hilary was written as a vixen when she was first brought onto the scene. I don't feel that. MM plays the part well. If she was being written as a Mary Sue people would be screaming about how out of character it is.

Yes racism. When has Hilary "won" against any female that isn't Lily?

 

It's easy for white females to be written as vixens because they don't have to deal with the racism inherent in Daytime. They have their run of the canvas (Adam casting issues aside Chelsea is a perfect example). How fun would younger Lauren have been if all she had done is lose to nearly every female character she came in contact with?

 

It's the same reason that everyone knows when Neil is getting a new love interest whenever Y&R issues a casting notice for an actress of color.

 

How long did it take Devon to have a REAL love scene (let alone a genuine relationship) compared to his male peers?

1 hour ago, DeeeDee said:

Eileen hadn't been happy for awhile.

 

Her initial return was fantastic but everything quickly went to hell for the character once they had her be the recipient of Grambo's sperm. The cancer was the first attempt at "redemption" for Ashley but viewers still hated her so the Barber Sisters were sacrificed to force viewers to empathize with the character (and it worked).

 

Tonya had been struggling for awhile too.

 

She had JUST gone under the bus for Shemar *and* Y&R's only other black female character (Alex) which had viewers hating Liv too only for her to directly transition (with her sister's help) into a Monster's Ball style affair with her best friend's husband.

 

It was SO gross.

 

I remember this time well. And I don't remember Olivia getting any redemption story after this. 

1 minute ago, ajsp35801 said:

 

I remember this time well. And I don't remember Olivia getting any redemption story after this. 

 

I don't think she was on contract for much longer after it. Ashley forgave her at some point though.

43 minutes ago, Darn said:

 

 

I will not tolerate Hillary (who I barely KNOW) being insulted and cast aside for a bunch of white people (and that includes Lily's high yellow ass) so if the show keeps up what they did Friday 

 

Oh honey, wait until you see Mondays show. 

 

 

FOUR white women prancing happily around GC buzz while Hilary stands quietly seething with jealousy until one insults her. Sharon Collins even asked her why she's still there and gloated how her be-ew-tiful daughter would make fans forget about hilary. Mind you, Hilary owns that company. But somehow she's out of  place

 

It actually made my stomach hurt. Sally is definitely old school soap. And I mean that in the worst way. 

39 minutes ago, ryanc said:

It may be a common trope but it's one that works and it's one that I'm 100% here for. Hilary doesn't have to be the collateral damage in all of this, they can delve deeper into what is motivating her to act out this way. Someone on this show should be a vixen, we don't have any right now. 

Racism? Really? Hilary was written as a vixen when she was first brought onto the scene. I don't feel that. MM plays the part well. If she was being written as a Mary Sue people would be screaming about how out of character it is.

 

Hilary is already the collateral damage in all this. Look around. The vitriol for this character surpasses anything I've seen for white characters whose done far worse. 

 

And I tell you, it bothers me that every white chick that comes along rises above their entrance story but the show insists on keeping hilary mired in muck. Yes, someone has to play the vixen role. I wonder why none of the white ladies are chosen to do it? 

 

13 minutes ago, Darn said:

 

I don't think she was on contract for much longer after it. Ashley forgave her at some point though.

 

Ah, that explains it. 

Edited December 11, 20169 yr by ajsp35801

3 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

 

Oh honey, wait until you see Mondays show. 

 

 

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FOUR white women prancing happily around GC buzz while Hilary stands quietly seething with jealousy until one insults her. Sharon Collins even asked her why she's still there and gloated how her be-ew-tiful daughter would make fans forget about hilary. Mind you, Hilary owns that company. But somehow she's out of  place

 

 

It actually made my stomach hurt. Sally is definitely old school soap. And I mean that in the worst way. 

I loved everything about that episode. Hilary's race is irrelevant IMO. (Sorry not sorry) but I don't really see the connection! Hilary has been this way since she was first brought into the show. People have been saying on this board and others that Hilary should be a social climbing vixen and now that people are getting it they're complaining? I don't understand it!

 

Some of the best characters on Days are characters like Sami Brady, Nicole Walker and Kristen DiMera who were ALL written as jealous psychopaths who did terrible [!@#$%^&*] and the audience ate it up (and even rooted for them to win because they were so delicious in that role) and these are all WHITE women. Now I know I'm talking about a different show here but I don't think Hilary was chosen to play this part because it makes you want to root for the "poor white woman". I think it's just pretty obvious that Camryn Grimes gives off that outcast, socially awkward vibe while Mishael Morgan is pure diva. It's common sense to me why this story works and it has NOTHING to do with race, but everyone is entitled to feel how they want to.

12 minutes ago, ajsp35801 said:

 

Oh honey, wait until you see Mondays show. 

 

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FOUR white women prancing happily around GC buzz while Hilary stands quietly seething with jealousy until one insults her. Sharon Collins even asked her why she's still there and gloated how her be-ew-tiful daughter would make fans forget about hilary. Mind you, Hilary owns that company. But somehow she's out of  place

 

It actually made my stomach hurt. Sally is definitely old school soap. And I mean that in the worst way. 

 

Hilary is already the collateral damage in all this. Look around. The vitriol for this character surpasses anything I've seen for white characters whose done far worse. 

 

And I tell you, it bothers me that every white chick that comes along rises above their entrance story but the show insists on keeping hilary mired in muck. Yes, someone has to play the vixen role. I wonder why none of the white ladies are chosen to do it? 

 

 

Ah, that explains it. 

I agree that more white women should play vixens on this show. That doesn't take away from my opinion on Hilary remaining a vixen though. The viewers can care about Hilary even though she does evil things. IMO Hilary comes across as a perfectionist and is very insecure and I think the show should delve deeper into her issues. I think a lot of people could relate to her (including myself). 

 

Hilary was in a boring a** triangle with Neil and Devon which did nothing for her character.

A) I've never asked for Hilary to be a social climbing vixen.

 

 

B  ) Hilary has not always been this way on the show. They took her back to this after they made neil a kidnapper hoping folks would hate her enough to not care what he did. Hilary went 2 full years redeemed, affair with devon not withstanding. so the whole she's always been this way is inaccurate. 

 

 

C) Yes, these white women are written this way. But the writing has never told viewers to hate them. Phyllis was crazy as h@ll. But every story was written to ensure that viewers found her entertaining not evil. Phyllis had friends. true relationships to show her softer side. she had a child too. This humanized her.  made her character relatable. Hilary has no redeeming qualities shown and  this is reiterated by characters onscreen. She has no honest relationship. not one. and please don't cite Jack or Devon. The moment they had hilary kiss Jack almost 3 years ago, that relationship was done. Pratt spent a year telling us Hilary didn't love devon and only wanted money/status he provided. Sally reiterated that when she had hilary sleep with devon to gain her position back. The woman whores herself with her own husband. But if you think this is good writing for her, I won't argue with you. 

 

 

Edited December 11, 20169 yr by ajsp35801

1 minute ago, ajsp35801 said:

A) I've never asked for Hilary to be a social climbing vixen.

B  ) Hilary has not always been this way on the show. They took her back to this after they made neil a kidnapper hoping folks would hate her enough to not care what he did. Hilary went 2 full years redeemed, affair with devon not withstanding. so the whole she's always been this way is inaccurate. 

C) Yes, these white women are written this way. But the writing has never told viewers to hate them. Phyllis was crazy as h@ll. But every story was written to ensure that viewers found her entertaining not evil. Phyllis had friends. true relationships to show her softer side. she had a child too. This humanized her.  made her character relatable. Hilary has no redeeming qualities shown and  this is reiterated by characters onscreen. She has no honest relationship. not one. and please don't cite Jack or Devon. The moment they had hilary kiss Jack almost 3 years ago, that relationship was done. Pratt spent a year telling us Hilary didn't love devon and only wanted money/status he provided. Sally reiterated that when she had hilary sleep with devon to gain her position back. The woman whores herself with her own husband. But if you think this is good writing for her, I won't argue with you. 

I agree that she has no redeeming qualities right now and the writing is pretty black and white. I'd like for Hilary to stay a vixen but still showcase the other side of her. Right now they haven't shown any good qualities and I hope that changes soon.