Empire: Discussion Thread

[marceline]

Astro would be a good addition to this show. (Yes his name really is 'Astro.')

I disagree that the show doesn't need Anika. Anika is Krystle Carrington and/or Pam Ewing. She the symbol of Lucious' desire to move forward and leave his past behind. She's the present while Cookie is the past. Just like Alexis/Krystle and Sue Ellen/Pam. Even if the show got rid of the character of Anika, it would need to create another character just like her to represent what she stands for.

[DaytimeFan]

And if that's so, I hope Anika goes horse riding and Cookie is standing by with a rifle a la Alexis Carrington and sends Anika for the dragging of her life...

[YRBB]

Absolutely! The role someone likes Anika plays is extremely necessary for a soap such as this. I guess the only issue is that they haven't created a character in Anika that viewers can root for nor is she played by an actress that can stand up to Taraji (even though she's been impressive thus far). Cookie is fantastic but she needs someone/a rival to play off of. She can't do it alone. Whatever Krystle and Alexis became later on, initially they were the perfect rivals for one another and both actresses had star power. Here, the balance is off.

[Particular]

Oh no you didn't bring that up. Thing is, between the two characters that is something I can see Anika doing and not Cookie.

This times a thousand. Taraji is a powerhouse and there's a reason she wanted Terance Howard. She knows how much they compliment each other so she's free to really lose herself in her work. She needs that in her rival/foe and as much as I appreciate Grace Gealey, I see the glaring imbalance. That's why I'm hoping they bring on someone like Tika Sumpter. I think she can play off of Taraji. Or even Carmen Ejogo.

I can see why some haven't warmed to the character. On the flip side, I actually like Anika but truth be told she's more of a foe in position and representation only. Cookie is Lucious' heart and his past. Their roots go deep and they still work as a formidable duo. Anika is classy, educated, dignified, refined, disciplined and very beautiful. Anika is a representation of his future and the direction his character should go. However, there is part of Lucious who will never fully be himself with Anika. She loves who he is now but where he came from is not something she's down for. That is evident everytime she mocks what Empire was prior to her arrival. And that's an issue because in order for Lucious to successfully transition his business to his successor, he has had to reconnect with his past to firmly entrench his vision for his legacy. I think in essence this is the real reason Anika is threatened by Cookie. Anika clearly feels superior to Cookie so the connection Lucious has to Cookie confounds her and is also something she underestimates as well. Even though Lucious slept with Cookie, she still won't see Cookie as a credible threat. Instead, to her Cookie is just a minor nuisance she will simply eliminate.

Anika's character was not present in the pivotal scene where Lucious revealed his ALS to the Lyons family. And I get why someone could interpret her character as unnecessary.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Particular

[YRBB]

LOL at "no, you didn't bring that up!"

Yeah, I don't see Cookie ever doing anything like that. Although she did order a hit on a man......

[Eric83]

[Skin]

Thank you everyone for giving me some thoughts to go threw and not going for the jugular immediately. I am hypersensitive to how media portrays different racial and ethnic groups so when this show came up and became a run away hit, I was immediately very worried about how these characters would be portrayed to audiences. I personally feel there is an aspect of exploitation in various mediums which causes me to have viewing problems with entertainment shows.

I mostly wanted to gauge everyone's reactions to see if any red flags showed up for any other viewers who have watched the show. It seems that my fears were unfounded and I will be able to watch the show in piece more or less, without any radically offensive portrayals of African American and Black people in a hit television series.

I was mostly afraid of the characters exhibiting stereotypical behavior and those characters appearing as negative caricatures and images within the black community. As to the comparison of Shameless, sadly even though Shameless deals with socio-economic issues, those problems that come up in the narrative don't carry many racial components within them as the cast is mostly white. It's not going to have the same gravitas as a series that surrounds an all Black/African- American cast. I understand that it's wrong to put this on Empire's shoulders but given it's representation there will be a finer focus on Empire for how is represents those same demographics.

I agree with you, but unfortunately we are not there yet and Empire will have a strong view in shaping audiences view points on people they don't know well or have never met before. Media representation is important.

Important point to be made. But at the same time I know people who have never met a black person before in their life, and the first time they will ever see one will be when they turn on their television or go to the movies. Is it right that this is their first exposure to other ethnicity and races? Of course not but it still carries significant power. If there were other avenues or ways to access stories about other cultures this wouldn't be an issue, but since there aren't many opportunities that makes these pioneering shows all the more important to the audiences that they reach. Positive portrayals in the media is important. All we see shouldn't be Denzel in Training Day.

[Juliajms]

I think the show runners are pretty aware of this responsibility. They've talked about trying to use the show to open people's minds about homosexuality. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a mind to do the same thing with race. Just from reading this thread, I can see that many black posters here are relating to the show, so that tells me they're being true and fair to that culture. We sure can't say the same about daytime, which has disgusted and disillusioned many an SON poster.

At the same time, as a white person, I don't feel excluded from the world of Empire. I feel like these characters are people I can understand. Just like you don't need to be white to understand Dallas or Downton and you don't have to be living in urban, white poverty to get Shameless. As Marceline said, they are exploring universal themes.

Once the audience understands and relates to characters, you can have those characters speak hard truths in a way that the audience will listen to without shutting down. When Cookie says America is racist, I just think it's a lot easier for people to hear that and think about that in the context of drama. It's a lot more effective than having someone come at an audience hard through a talk show or speech, no matter how true their points may be. That's the power of drama and art and I think it's pretty invaluable when it comes to opening minds.

[Vee]

I think they need someone like Anika, and I think Grace Gealey does a great job. She had pathos early on, they made us feel for her, but they also made me turn on her when she drugged Elle. Her raging insecurity about her relationship with Lucious - which was highlighted the minute Cookie came back and she stepped out in her underwear, then told her mother it was okay that she'd put her own musical career on hold for a philandering, powerful man - is her own worst enemy. I don't think Anika will last - the promos suggest she is getting ready to go scorched earth to keep her place - but I think there always needs to be an Anika type, and for that, I would love to see Tika Sumpter or whoever else.

[MoTheGreat]

I didn't say Cookie didn't need a rival but Anika isn't the one or at least her portrayar isn't. TH wanted LilKim & LeeDaniels was calling out Foxy Brown. So, obviously they know Cookie needs more rivals or at least know that Anika isn't the one.

Astro name is Brian Vaughn Bradley, Jr

Edited February 22, 2015 by MoTheGreat

[All My Shadows]

I agree with the idea that Anika is a necessary character. I see her as sort of like Krystle, but Anika has been established as way more devious than Krystle ever was, and that's an interesting dynamic to play, especially with Cookie not being as devious/manipulative as Alexis. For all of our love and adoration for Miss Cookie, she really hasn't been presented as a villainess. Her role in the basic plot isn't to scheme and plot. She brings the glamour and the fierceness, but she's not bulldozing lives to get what she wants. What we have going on between Anika and Cookie is, speaking in simple terms, "what if Krystle was the scheming bitch and Alexis was mostly honest?" If TPTB purposely chose that route, they're brilliant. Either way, I'm all for it.

[Vee]

I think Cookie only really fills the Alexis role in very superficial terms - just the silhouette. She is the heroine, the audience identifier and the favorite; she's not the bitch you love to hate. She believes in people and in dreams and family, and despite how the show was promoted, she is not there for her pound of flesh.

[DaytimeFan]

Not to make this a Dynasty discussion, but I always saw Alexis as more of a Dynamic Anti-Hero than an antagonist, she changed over time and had a fierce love of her children and legitimate issue with Blake, but she softened after her marriage to Dex and was always soft to Steven and his struggles and was tender to Jeff. And she had her own enemies go after what she'd attained and achieved and, in the end, she reconciled with the family, which was her arc from her first episode to her last. She wasn't a bitch I loved to hate, she was a strong, vengeful, passionate woman I loved to watch - and for me that's Cookie too.

As things stand currently, no, I don't see Cookie doing it...but...if a line was crossed I think she has it in her. I'm curious how she will react when the truth about what happened to Elle is revealed. She did order a hit on a man. And I love her for it.

[Eric83]

I thought this the first time, but when I watched for the third time I thought it was better as it was. If Cookie would've opened her eyes it would have made the sex scene about her and Boo Boo Kitty and about point scoring. It was more powerful that they were so genuinely involved in one another and passionate which would piss Boo Boo Kitty off more.

[NothinButAttitude]

Oh Eric, Cheap, and Prince....

Here's y'all bae on The View giving sexy.

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