Who would you consider the Nixon, Bell, and Phillips of PRIMETIME

[allmc2008]

Since this is centered around comparing Soap creators to Primetime Creators my gut is telling me it should be here and not primetime oxides.

I think David Jacobs of Knots/DALLAS could be considered the "Irna Phillips" of Prime Time considering he popularized the primetime soap. Perhaps he could be the Nixon because the Knots/Dallas story is comparable to OLTL/AMC story. Meaning, Knots was his original conception but the networks didn't want it so he created DALLAS. When Dallas was successful they greenlit KNOTS. Agnes, of course, had a similar situation. AMC was first but they wanted to test her so she created OLTL. When that was a success they greenlit AMC. Maybe he is the Bill Bell because of his slow paced and psychological storytelling?

Perhaps Norman Lear could be the Nixon of Daytime as he used ATIF as a platform to tell current events using the formula of sit-com. AMC was used the same but used the soap formula.

Anyway, I can't wait to here everyone's thoughts!!

[BKuzak]

The first name that came to mind was Steven Brocco. He might not have "created" the TV cop shows but he blew the door off it's hinges. First with Hill Street Blues...making it gritty and real. The after the very sucessful L.A. Law (which is still studied in law schools), he did it again with NYPD Blue making it more normal by using swear words and do the occasionally "butt scenes' never seen before or since on network primetime television. NYPD Blue lasted 10 seasons.

[P.J.]

I think this is a lot harder to qualify, because even a "hit" show has such a brief life compared to the soap opera.

Norman Lear, certainly in the '70's. Steven Bochco in the '80's. Aaron Spelling, for better or worse from the '70's to the '90's. Stephen Cannell. JJ Abrams I think really reinvigorated the serialized drama (that have their own, defined mythology) with Alias in 2001 and Lost a few years later.

[YRfan23]

Might be A little off topic but Jeff Davis of Teen Wolf is def JER!

[Khan]

Agree. Plus, primetime television isn't a genre unto itself the way daytime drama is. Comedy, drama, variety, miniseries, etc. -- all co-exist within primetime. In order for the analogies to Nixon, Bell and Phillips to work, I think you might have to break it down genre by genre.

For example, you could say Lucille Ball (and by extension, Desi and their writers) was the Irna Phillips of primetime comedy since "I Love Lucy" was arguably the first, successful, ground-breaking TV sitcom. The "Agnes Nixon" and "Bill Bell" might be Carl Reiner ("The Dick Van Dyke Show") and Norman Lear ("All in the Family"), or even Jim Brooks & Allan Burns ("The Mary Tyler Moore Show"). The JER, though...? Maybe Garry Marshall ("Happy Days") or Miller/Boyett?

[quartermainefan]

I would say Gene Roddenberry would be the Agnes Nixon one here in that he used his format to tell stories with real world meaning, he used comedy, he worked in romance, and he used character actors in key roles like she did. He used his hammy characters like McCoy and Kirk and turned them into people you cared about much the way she would go on to do for characters like Pheobe and Langley.

"Irma Phillips" could mean anything really. Was she truly a good writer? It seems doubtful looking at how painfully slow vintage soaps can be, but she was the first and the trailblazer. Perhaps Rod Serling, as the first superstar TV writer, is the Irma Phillips of primetime.

[Khan]

Perhaps, in the field of sci-fi (or "genre") television, I might be inclined to think of Serling as the Irna Phillips, with Roddenberry as the Agnes Nixon (and then, somewhere down the line, Glen A. Larson as the JER or Megan McTavish).

[P.J.]

You said it better than I did.

It would be fascinating to breakdown the "family trees" of television. Desilu would be one, Sid Caesar, Steve Allen, etc, and see all the talent that ran through the various shows.

[Soapsuds]

Leonard Katzman

Phillip Capice

[All My Shadows]

TV Land, back when they were making these great shows that charted all kinds of TV history, had a mini-series called "TV Land Moguls" where each episode studied the "name" producers from each decade and then showed a marathon of their shows. The 50s had Desilu, Sheldon Leonard, and Danny Thomas; the 60s had Quinn Martin, Jack Webb, Paul Henning, and Sherwood Schwartz; the 70s had Aaron Spelling, MTM, Norman Lear, Lorimar, and Garry Marshall; the 80s had Stephen J. Cannell, Steven Bochco, Susan Harris, and Carsey-Werner; and the 90s-00s had David E. Kelley, Worldwide Pants, Dick York, Darren Starr, and Jerry Bruckheimer. I was PISSSSSSSSSED because of all the shows they decided to show for this, they didn't show any Dallas or Dynasty, which were massive hits for their respective companies.

[Khan]

There could be two reasons for that:

1. They couldn't clear the rights to use clips (which doesn't seem likely, but...).

2. They aren't what could be considered "prestigious" shows. (Of course, if you're Aaron Spelling, for example, and you've produced shows such as "The Love Boat" and "Fantasy Island," you'd be hard-pressed to include a show that DOESN'T come across as "junk-food TV.")

[Cheap21]

Tyler Perry

[Khan]

The Anti-Christ Ron Carlivati of Primetime Television (and First-Run Syndication and the Stage).

[DRW50]

I can't say I have ever been all that interested in his work, but Kevin Williamson went a long way to bring soap-ish content back into pop culture prominence.

[All My Shadows]

They did use clips from all of those shows, and they did show Love Boat, which is held by CBS (or at least was at that time) just like Dynasty. They eventually aired episodes of Knots and Dallas (and FC) a year or so later for the Warner Bros. anniversary weekend.