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GL: Tammy/Jonathan Spoiler


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In the 2/14 issue of SOW:

Justin Klosky (ex-Joey) states, "I'm going to be working with Jonathan, Tammy, and Lizzie."

I believe he's airing in mid-March. If so, guess they will be bringing up the issue about Jonathan selling drugs to Lizzie to help drug Joey and make him believe that he had sex with Lizzie.. While some may think this was a big deal at the time, I don't see how much of a difference it will make now...especially if this is all about Tammy finding out.

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I think it will make a difference. Tammy is just supposed to accept the fact that her boyfriend sold drugs? To Lizzie of all people, who in turn broke up Joey and Tammy?

I couldn't care less about Joey (or Tammy/Jonathan for that matter) but at least it's being resolved and is being used to stir conflict.

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Well, I would like to deal with the drugging issue on Jonathan's side, it's really what it means to Tammy, not Jonathan and Tammy. Joey had to leave Tammy because he was being blackmailed by Phillip. He couldn't tell Tammy what happened because Phillip threatened to foreclose on his mother's house. Tammy and Joey had a very abrupt ending, and there's enough unresolved issues to deal with. Joey loved Tammy, and Tammy did love Joey. The basis of what happened in the end with Joey and Tammy was based completely on a lie.

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I think it will make a difference. Tammy is just supposed to accept the fact that her boyfriend sold drugs? To Lizzie of all people, who in turn broke up Joey and Tammy?

What Tammy already knows is more hurtful than than the fact that Jonathan used to sell drugs...I'm sure she'd be pissed...but I wouldn't buy it if her anger lasted too long. I'm curious as to how she will react knowing that Lizzie had been involved in drugging Joey, though.

Well, I would like to deal with the drugging issue on Jonathan's side, it's really what it means to Tammy, not Jonathan and Tammy.
This is about Jonathan & Tammy just as it is much about Joey & Tammy. One can argue that Jon & Tammy would not be together now if Jon hadn't sold Lizzie those drugs. If this gets brought up, I'm sure Jonathan will say that if he hadn't sold the drugs, he would have found another way to get Tammy.

Joey loved Tammy, and Tammy did love Joey. The basis of what happened in the end with Joey and Tammy was based completely on a lie.

Joey & Tammy may have loved each other but from what I've heard, it sounded like an immature type of love and they were far from being a mind-blowing love story. I doubt that knowing the truth would make Tammy throw away what she feels for Jon..especially after all the crap they've been through.

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What Tammy already knows is more hurtful than than the fact that Jonathan used to sell drugs...I'm sure she'd be pissed...but I wouldn't buy it if her anger lasted too long. I'm curious as to how she will react knowing that Lizzie had been involved in drugging Joey, though.

Tammy still thinks that Lizzie and Joey had sex, so yeah, that will be interestning. Plus haven't we all ready had people learn that Jonathan was a drug dealer during the Nate/Alfred story. I think that it's important for Tammy to know how it effected her because she was fighting Lizzie for Joey, and Jonathan helped her fall.

This is about Jonathan & Tammy just as it is much about Joey & Tammy. One can argue that Jon & Tammy would not be together now if Jon hadn't sold Lizzie those drugs. If this gets brought up, I'm sure Jonathan will say that if he hadn't sold the drugs, he would have found another way to get Tammy.
I was responding to the fact that you didn't think this would be a big deal and focused on Jonathan's part, I agreed, but I think the issue was bigger than just Tammy and Jonathan. It's how Tammy and Joey led to Tammy and Jonathan. Your writing it off as immature love is a bit unfair, who would be like me saying that eventually Tammy will come to her senses when a new headwriter arrives. Joey had to leave Tammy. And when they ask Joey why he didn't come back to Tammy when Phillip died, he could simply say that he learned what had happened between Tammy and Jonathan and didn't want to hurt her any more.

The thing is I really don't believe Jonathan could have gotten to Tammy any other way than he could. The Jonathan-Tammy story, while good in the first round, required a lot of setup to accept what was going to happen. Joey and Tammy, who had overcome their summer apart, were coming together after the Spaulding Internship Contest. Lizzie had to drug Joey, who had to learn about the drugging, who had to be blackmailed out of town by Phillip, whose daughter Lizzie had to kill Tammy and instead hit Sandy, leaving Tammy to be sad and vulernable around predator JB/Jonathan. Tammy was cut off from everybody at the time when she and Jonathan were together. Sandy was in the hospital. Shayne and Marah out of town. Joey off in Boston. Marina in back burnered land. Cassie too busy dealing with the return of Dinah. Edmund dealing with his guilt over the Jeffrey and barn fire incident. Joey and Tammy's break up wasn't organic in that there was a fundamental problem between them, it was Joey chosing his mother over Tammy, which I think, maybe I'm wrong, Tammy could understand. Joey hurt her to save his mother, while Jonathan did it to hurt his.

Joey & Tammy may have loved each other but from what I've heard, it sounded like an immature type of love and they were far from being a mind-blowing love story. I doubt that knowing the truth would make Tammy throw away what she feels for Jon..especially after all the crap they've been through.

Joey, Tammy, and Lizzie were the big teen story of 2004 with Tammy and Joey as the couple to root for. Joey had been built up quite a bit, and while I doubt that this couple had much of a following, they were the dominant story during the summer when most soaps are trying to grab the younger audience.

Do I see Tammy and Jonathan breaking up over this? Probably not. Should they, it might be a little more interesting. However this is Kreizman who had Michelle learn that her husband blew her up with no impact. But why should Tammy just accept the fact that Jonathan help to end something that she had been fighting for? Because he loves her now, except the put her through hell when Joey had to leave town and than when she learned she had slept her cousin. But it's okay because they are happy now.

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It's unfortunate that I never saw the Lizzie/Tammy/Joey story (if for anything..to get an objective view of this entire mess...since frankly, I found Joey to be a complete bore from the few scenes I've seen of him) but from I've read, Tammy always seemed unsatisfied with her relationship with Joey. Even though her relationship with Jonathan was originally based on a lie, he was the first one to challenge her to live a little and I got the impression that Tammy wanted to be someone other than the good girl for a change.

I think you're underestimating Jon's intelligence here. Didn't he almost break up Sandy & Tammy once when he slept with Zoe while posing as Sandy? I don't think drugs were involved there.

Ehh..I never really care about what TPTB are trying to promote unless it's the story I like. :lol: Just because they pimp something to the extreme doesn't make me like it...hence why I never bought Aaron & Lucy as ATWT's next supercouple and was more than willing to believe when TPTB later wrote Dusty as Lucy's first true love (despite the fact I didn't really care for them as a couple).

I don't think it would be more interesting..I'm interested in seeing Tammy's reaction to the truth but I wouldn't buy it if they broke up over this...especially after she's forgiven him for a gazillion other things that were almost just as bad..if not worse (sleeping with her without telling her who he was and later making her feel bad about it, drugging her mother and pretending they had sex, pretending to be Sandy to break her and Sandy up, blackmailing her mother about Jeffrey, etc.).

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It's unfortunate that I never saw the Lizzie/Tammy/Joey story (if for anything..to get an objective view of this entire mess...since frankly, I found Joey to be a complete bore from the few scenes I've seen of him) but from I've read, Tammy always seemed unsatisfied with her relationship with Joey. Even though her relationship with Jonathan was originally based on a lie, he was the first one to challenge her to live a little and I got the impression that Tammy wanted to be someone other than the good girl for a change.

Tammy being unsatisified with her relationship with Joey isn't anything I really remember. I think Tammy wished that Joey was more of an adult. I think she found him childish, wishing he was more like her Uncle Edmund. Tammy was blossoming in April 2004, and was seeing a lot of airtime and development. There was a brief period of her wanting to be a grown up. She tried on one of her mother's gowns and had a crush on Edmund that led to a kiss at the "Romeo & Juliet" cast party.

Tammy and Joey were going to have sex for the first time in May, Tammy in rebel mode after the kiss, feeling ashamed over her naiveity. Joey, I think, told her that she wasn't ready, and they decided against it. Then at the San Cristobal Ball in June, Lizzie dropped the bomb to Joey that Edmund and Tammy kissed at the cast party and broke up with Tammy and planned on going to the Summer Fling with Lizzie. Tammy set out to beat Joey in the Spaulding Internship Contest, which featured her washing cars in her bikini to attract young male customers. Tammy used to be a very strong female heroine. She was a fighter, but she was vulernable.

My problem with "Tammy as wanting to be more than just a good girl" is that Stephanie Gatschet is so good at playing that young aspiring woman who wants a lot from life and still has the good boyfriend. She could make a good girl-good guy pairing interesting.

I think you're underestimating Jon's intelligence here. Didn't he almost break up Sandy & Tammy once when he slept with Zoe while posing as Sandy? I don't think drugs were involved there.
Ehh... I don't know. The Zoe thing was obviously Kriezman seemed like an odd attempt to pimp Jonathan and Tammy. It would simply a hookey story. Sandy worshipped the ground Tammy walked on, and it seemed like Tammy was really dumb to buy into that.

Honestly, I think Jonathan's Inside The Light episode proved my point though with Jonathan trying to redo his first scene. There was no way that Jonathan could have come to town and made it work. I think that Tammy and Joey were too solid for him to get in the way.

The issue of "Tammy is a good girl" though is something that is still, in my opinion, a lingering sting from her first time with Jonathan. She cannot see herself as a good girl after having sex with her cousin. I mean that's the way I've read it, but I don't really get to watch much anymore.

Ehh..I never really care about what TPTB are trying to promote unless it's the story I like. :lol: Just because they pimp something to the extreme doesn't make me like it...hence why I never bought Aaron & Lucy as ATWT's next supercouple and was more than willing to believe when TPTB later wrote Dusty as Lucy's first true love (despite the fact I didn't really care for them as a couple).

Same here. I was probably the only person who enjoyed the Spaulding Internship Contest story, aka "The Apprentice" ripoff. I felt that it was a good backdrop for the two young love triangles (Tammy-Joey-Lizzie and Shayne-Marina-Sandy) to play out. Much more interesting than everyone goes to work at Lewis last summer which really resulted in a whole lot of nothing, unless some stuff was aborted do to the aborted Spaulding-Lewis war.

I don't think it would be more interesting..I'm interested in seeing Tammy's reaction to the truth but I wouldn't buy it if they broke up over this...especially after she's forgiven him for a gazillion other things that were almost just as bad..if not worse (sleeping with her without telling her who he was and later making her feel bad about it, drugging her mother and pretending they had sex, pretending to be Sandy to break her and Sandy up, blackmailing her mother about Jeffrey, etc.).

lol. I meant breaking up with Jonathan not because of what he has done, but because the way things ended with Joey. How the hell long is Joey going to be around for? Is it just an episode? Or is a recurring stint?

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"(if for anything..to get an objective view of this entire mess...since frankly, I found Joey to be a complete bore from the few scenes I've seen of him)"

To be frank, that's a fairly accurate observation LOL. Joey was a snooze.

" Is it just an episode?"

I believe so. Nothing I've read seems to indicate a longer stay.

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Tammy being unsatisified with her relationship with Joey isn't anything I really remember. I think Tammy wished that Joey was more of an adult. I think she found him childish, wishing he was more like her Uncle Edmund. Tammy was blossoming in April 2004, and was seeing a lot of airtime and development. There was a brief period of her wanting to be a grown up. She tried on one of her mother's gowns and had a crush on Edmund that led to a kiss at the "Romeo & Juliet" cast party.

The fact that Tammy found Edmund ideal is proof enough that she was unsatisfied with what she had with Joey. OMG...that scene you just described of Tammy going after Edmund sounds creepy! :o I wish I had seen that! I think SG is great at playing psycho in a Bonnie kind of way.

Tammy set out to beat Joey in the Spaulding Internship Contest, which featured her washing cars in her bikini to attract young male customers. Tammy used to be a very strong female heroine. She was a fighter, but she was vulernable.
Oh, God...this sounds almost as bad as ATWT's Six Keys to the Kingdom Contest the summer of 2004...which I actually enjoyed despite the big cheese factor. :lol:

My problem with "Tammy as wanting to be more than just a good girl" is that Stephanie Gatschet is so good at playing that young aspiring woman who wants a lot from life and still has the good boyfriend. She could make a good girl-good guy pairing interesting.

Umm..she was in a good girl-good guy pairing later with Sandy..and that turned stale fast, IMO. <_< I have yet to like a pairing with two characters who were alike longterm. The beginning of the romance might be exciting and all but once they get past the ILY's, the internal conflict seems to disappear and they get written into a corner..and if they do face some interesting obstacle, their similar personalities make the story less interesting than it could actually be if the people involved had contrasting personalities.

Honestly, I think Jonathan's Inside The Light episode proved my point though with Jonathan trying to redo his first scene. There was no way that Jonathan could have come to town and made it work. I think that Tammy and Joey were too solid for him to get in the way.
I don't recall Joey being in any of Jonathan's remakes of his first scene. Jon's problem with trying to redo that scene was because he was trying to make things "right" in the sense that Tammy wouldn't hate him but fall in love with him anyway. When I said that Jonathan would have found another way to get Tammy, I still hold the assumption that he would still have the cruelest of intentions.

The issue of "Tammy is a good girl" though is something that is still, in my opinion, a lingering sting from her first time with Jonathan. She cannot see herself as a good girl after having sex with her cousin. I mean that's the way I've read it, but I don't really get to watch much anymore.

I think Tammy has realized that none of this was her fault. If she was angry at herself for being good, she was especially angry at herself for being naive and she was hurt by the fact that Jonathan had sex with her only to get back at Reva..not because he actually liked her.

I meant breaking up with Jonathan not because of what he has done, but because the way things ended with Joey.
Again, if I got the impression that she felt the same about Joey as she did about Jonathan...then maybe I would buy her breaking up with Jon because of how things ended with Joey. But since that's not the case, I'd wonder WTH Joey would matter period.

How the hell long is Joey going to be around for? Is it just an episode? Or is a recurring stint?

I'm with Dan and say he's only around for an episode. God knows that this is a character I don't care to see back on the show. :blink:

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The fact that Tammy found Edmund ideal is proof enough that she was unsatisfied with what she had with Joey. OMG...that scene you just described of Tammy going after Edmund sounds creepy! :o I wish I had seen that! I think SG is great at playing psycho in a Bonnie kind of way.

Edmund was 'redeemed' back than, so I hope you aren't using that as the assessment. Wanting someone to change doesn't mean you're unsatsified. I think Tammy wanted Joey to make the best of his life, which is something you want for someone you care about. Tammy thought that Edmund was the ideal man, and confused fatherly devotion for something more, and that was what she thought she wanted, but after the kiss she realized that's not what she wanted. I still think that Tammy loved Joey.

Umm..she was in a good girl-good guy pairing later with Sandy..and that turned stale fast, IMO. <_< I have yet to like a pairing with two characters who were alike longterm. The beginning of the romance might be exciting and all but once they get past the ILY's, the internal conflict seems to disappear and they get written into a corner..and if they do face some interesting obstacle, their similar personalities make the story less interesting than it could actually be if the people involved had contrasting personalities.
I've said it before in another post, Sandy and Tammy weren't given any storyline when there were issues for them to deal with. How can you be interesting when you aren't being given the time of day. Lizzie's car accident, where Tammy was the intended target and Sandy was the victim, was swept under the rug. The fact that Sandy pretended to be Tammy's cousin was quickly swept under the rug.

Also, everyone has a different idea of interesting. I would prefer to watch Tammy trying to persuade Josh to let Sandy work again for Lewis than watch Tammy shouting to everyone in Springfield how she's in love with her cousin. I would have liked to have seen Jonathan and Marina hook up and the conflict that would ensue with Marina being warned by Tammy and Sandy, only for Marina to throw Sandy's own deception in their faces. I think that they rushed into Tammy and Sandy, as they have with Tammy and Jonathan. Pacing continues to be the biggest problem with this show.

I don't recall Joey being in any of Jonathan's remakes of his first scene. Jon's problem with trying to redo that scene was because he was trying to make things "right" in the sense that Tammy wouldn't hate him but fall in love with him anyway. When I said that Jonathan would have found another way to get Tammy, I still hold the assumption that he would still have the cruelest of intentions.

Well, I can see that. Did Jonathan know that Sandy was being secretive with Tammy? I cannot remember. Most post-May stuff is a big blur to me. If he did, then yeah Jonathan can be pretty manipulative, if not Jonathan just got [[email protected]#$%^&*] ass lucky. It's possible he could get lucky again, but I really feel that the JB story was so structured that there ws really no other way to go about it than the way it happened.

Again, if I got the impression that she felt the same about Joey as she did about Jonathan...then maybe I would buy her breaking up with Jon because of how things ended with Joey. But since that's not the case, I'd wonder WTH Joey would matter period.

But you yourself said that you never seen Joey and Tammy, and I think that's an unfair assessment to make. Do I think Jonathan and Tammy are strong? I don't know as I don't watch that much, but my guess is that while there is enough of an internal bond, there always seems to be mounting external pressure. It's possible that Tammy will change her mind again and want to be that good girl again.

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Edmund was 'redeemed' back than, so I hope you aren't using that as the assessment.

No, I'm not. But I think it says a lot when she's eyeing her uncle when she's supposedly already with the guy she loves. <_<

Wanting someone to change doesn't mean you're unsatsified. I think Tammy wanted Joey to make the best of his life, which is something you want for someone you care about.
What kind of changes did she want for Joey? He sounded like the typical, good, highschool boyfriend to me. Hence, why I think Tammy was unsatisfied...

I still think that Tammy loved Joey

IMO, there's different levels of love. It still sounds like what Tammy had with Joey was an immature type of love and doesn't even begin to compare to what she feels for Jonathan.

I've said it before in another post, Sandy and Tammy weren't given any storyline when there were issues for them to deal with. How can you be interesting when you aren't being given the time of day. Lizzie's car accident, where Tammy was the intended target and Sandy was the victim, was swept under the rug. The fact that Sandy pretended to be Tammy's cousin was quickly swept under the rug.
I actually agree with you on this one to an extent. Had Sandy & Tammy dealt more with all these problems, they might have been more interesting. But I've seen the clips where Sandy was trying to stop her from hooking up with JB and the chemistry was just not there.

Also, everyone has a different idea of interesting. I would prefer to watch Tammy trying to persuade Josh to let Sandy work again for Lewis than watch Tammy shouting to everyone in Springfield how she's in love with her cousin. I would have liked to have seen Jonathan and Marina hook up and the conflict that would ensue with Marina being warned by Tammy and Sandy, only for Marina to throw Sandy's own deception in their faces. I think that they rushed into Tammy and Sandy, as they have with Tammy and Jonathan. Pacing continues to be the biggest problem with this show.

I'm soo glad this is not what happened! :P

Well, I can see that. Did Jonathan know that Sandy was being secretive with Tammy?
About what?

But you yourself said that you never seen Joey and Tammy, and I think that's an unfair assessment to make. Do I think Jonathan and Tammy are strong? I don't know as I don't watch that much, but my guess is that while there is enough of an internal bond, there always seems to be mounting external pressure. It's possible that Tammy will change her mind again and want to be that good girl again.

Yeah, I admit, I'm a tad biased. <_< But then again, sometimes you get a sense of how strong a couple is just by reading about them. I don't need to see Victor & Nikki or Bo & Hope everyday to know they are strong couples. How long were Tammy & Joey together? One of the staples of a soap couple is that they get through all the obstacles no matter what...obviously, this didn't happen with Tammy & Joey. Tammy quickly forgot about Joey..and I guess you can blame this on the writing if you want.

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