I can't get the link to the actual article (on wga.org) to work, so I'll post this link instead. Regardless, it's a pretty fun list, I think.

ETA: Did I say "fun"? I meant "bad." It's a bad list. (Sorry, y'all, lol.)

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Exclusive-Best-Written-Shows-Ever-TV-Writers-1066234.aspx

Edited June 4, 201312 yr by Khan

And Lord did they hate her, lol. In fact, there's probably some Aidan/Carrie fans out there who still wish SJP dead for breaking the poor s.o.b.'s heart twice.

I absolutely hated Carrie for that.

And i loved the the show allowed it. It wasnt wrong to hate her, but it wasnt wrong not to either. She fucked him over, but it was so in character for her to do. Twice.

I think Scandal is the only other show i can name off the top of my head that has allowed the audience to hate the lead in that way. The way of not excusing it. What Olivia Pope does, and what Carrie Bradshaw did, is wrong. They know its wrong, they own that its wrong, but they do what they do and the audience still watches, still roots for them.

ICAM.

Okay, "Queer as Folk" was kind of rough, lol. But I thought they did great work with "An Early Frost" and later, "Sisters."

I admit I was thinking entirely of Queer as Folk (and I admit, I do appreciate some of the writers who worked on that show--I know Canadian gay playwright Brad Fraser who is on my facebook is proud of his work work there--I believe he was a story editor as well as writer for some seasons, even though I don't think any of it compares to his plays or films like Love and Human Remains.) I kinda liked Sisters back at the time, but never paid much attention to it really or followed it regularly and remember that it kinda fell apart--I seem to recall.

An Early Frost of course was a groundbreaking film and I remember it being good, but I haven't seen it since I was 13 or so in the 90s and was terrified that being gay would mean ending up with AIDS.

But while I watched all of QAF I admit--I loved the Davies original so much, and found so many of the plots in the remake beyond head shaking, that I have a hard time giving them much credit. Does anyone remember the shortlived SHowtime show they had during the run of QAF, Leap Years? It was too high concept (jumping between the early nineties, 2001 and the near future) and sorta a mess, but I did like some of the characters like the bisexual guy played by the guy who now is the dad on Raising Hope.

Leap Years went the usual tragic/dead gay route but was a little less forced than QAF.

I liked QAF more when they moved away from the UK stories and I could focus on characters beyond boring, plastic Brian and Justin. With that said it was never a great show (everything with the lesbians was especially strange), although I do think some of their stories were worthy of praise, like the Ben/Michael relationship, and their adopting an HIV-positive teenager.

Sisters was a nice little show the first few seasons, until it started taking itself too seriously. The Georgie molestation plot was reprehensible.

I never hated Carrie for dumping Aidan. I hated the writing. I hated that boring, sanctimonious Aidan, who had zero chemistry with Carrie, was written as the epitome of goodness, and that we were supposed to see Carrie as a pathetic loser who stumbled through life, and isn't this sad and melancholy. It was forced, and the story dragged on and on, and it reeked of a writer trying very hard to show us how awesome he was.

Edited June 4, 201312 yr by CarlD2

I never hated Carrie for dumping Aidan. I hated the writing. I hated that boring, sanctimonious Aidan, who had zero chemistry with Carrie, was written as the epitome of goodness, and that we were supposed to see Carrie as a pathetic loser who stumbled through life, and isn't this sad and melancholy. It was forced, and the story dragged on and on, and it reeked of a writer trying very hard to show us how awesome he was.

She didnt dump him, she cheated on him.

And i hated her for it, for a long time, but i also at the same time understood it, and her, so i didnt hate her, but i did at the same time because aiden was perfect and everything. I dont think he ever saw Carrie as some pathetic loser stumbling through life, he loved her and supported her but he wasnt going to deal with her cheating on him, pushing him away, and being a bitch just because she couldnt handle a drama free relationship. But Carrie loves the drama, and thats why I love her. She always went back to big for the drama, and when there was no drama with him she created it. She was messy, and it was great.

Pretty much the same thing in terms of writing, as she chose someone else over him.

I felt like Aiden mostly cared about "fixing" Carrie, and the rest was an afterthought. The relationship was more about what Carrie couldn't have, and they kept doing this, dull relationships with guys she would never work with. I just had no connection to this. I didn't care about the sorrow of Carrie's broken dreams. I liked it better in the first two seasons where she was still screwed up, but the show saw it as funny and sharp, not as a cry for help.

Edited June 4, 201312 yr by CarlD2

Im not sure how cheating on someone is basically the same as breaking up with someone...

I never saw her crying out for help or anything she did as a cry for help. She knew she was fucked up, because everyone is fucked up. She did try to change, but it wasnt her so she stopped. She did grow without changing who she always was at her core tho, and i thought it was overall a great character story for all four ladies - and for the city.

I guess I was going with your comment that she wanted the relationship to fail.

I'm glad you enjoyed the story.

I enjoy DOwnton, but I relly think these lists should just count shows that are finished--otherwise it seems unfair (I didn't see it n the list--but was surprised the original Upstairs Downstairs wasn't there, unless I just missed it..)

It is there, much to my surprise and delight. It shares 79th place with "Alfred Hitchcock Presents", "Monty Python's Flying Circus" and "Star Trek: The Next Generation".

Brideshead is one of my faveTV produtions ever--but I assumed it was due to being a miniseries (Roots, etc, didn't make it either and you'd normally see the there) which does make Band of Brothers an odd choice...

I enjoy DOwnton, but I relly think these lists should just count shows that are finished--otherwise it seems unfair (I didn't see it n the list--but was surprised the original Upstairs Downstairs wasn't there, unless I just missed it..)

Original Upstairs Downstairs was tied for #79 on the list... I came across it on netflix and loved it! I guess Downton Abbey is a modern day version of it? I've never seen DA, but based on the summaries, it sounds like a reboot of sorts.

Roots is # 62 on the list... I guess that is a mini-series as well

I remember how huge Lonesome Dove was as a kid, though my parents told me I was too young to watch it with them LOL

I think they should have excluded currently running programs from the list.. but then people would cry foul on that as well.. so perhaps they should have done two seperate lists?

Plus, I watched some 30 Rock episodes... not seeing the stellar writing... guess it is a list for snobs!

I dont think any of the shows on the list dont belong there. They were all, for the most part, well written good tv shows. Not to say there are not shows as worthy, or even more worthy of being on there, but i dont think theres a "WTF is this show doing on the list" even if i dont personally care for some of them.

Sex and the City absolutely deserves its spot, imo. No, it wasnt a perfect series and it wasnt the best of all time, but it was damn good, had a huge impact, and holds up today. The transition from kinda episodic to full on contentious stories was great, the characters remained who they were while evolving and growing, the lead was allowed to [!@#$%^&*] up and the audience allowed to hate her at times.

I absolutely hated Carrie for that.

And i loved the the show allowed it. It wasnt wrong to hate her, but it wasnt wrong not to either. She fucked him over, but it was so in character for her to do. Twice.

I think Scandal is the only other show i can name off the top of my head that has allowed the audience to hate the lead in that way. The way of not excusing it. What Olivia Pope does, and what Carrie Bradshaw did, is wrong. They know its wrong, they own that its wrong, but they do what they do and the audience still watches, still roots for them.

She didnt dump him, she cheated on him.

And i hated her for it, for a long time, but i also at the same time understood it, and her, so i didnt hate her, but i did at the same time because aiden was perfect and everything. I dont think he ever saw Carrie as some pathetic loser stumbling through life, he loved her and supported her but he wasnt going to deal with her cheating on him, pushing him away, and being a bitch just because she couldnt handle a drama free relationship. But Carrie loves the drama, and thats why I love her. She always went back to big for the drama, and when there was no drama with him she created it. She was messy, and it was great.

Im not sure how cheating on someone is basically the same as breaking up with someone...

I never saw her crying out for help or anything she did as a cry for help. She knew she was fucked up, because everyone is fucked up. She did try to change, but it wasnt her so she stopped. She did grow without changing who she always was at her core tho, and i thought it was overall a great character story for all four ladies - and for the city.

Yes, yes, so much yes.

I still remember the excitement of that cheating story. My God, they did not care at all to make it sympathetic, did they? She cheated because she wanted to, because it was hot, because she could. No sugarcoating, no lies, no trying to excuse her. And it was mesmerizing. To me, that was feministic--she did not cheat because she was abused or mistreated or unhappy. She cheated because she damn well pleased. She knew it was wrong (the audience did too) but it did not matter--wrong decisions are made all the time.

Her attempts to be someone else in order to work with Aidan a second time (because she knew he was the best choice, if not the right one) were also fascinating. I never though Aidan illogical in his actions. Just like a man is expected to "change" in order to work in a marriage/relationship (we certainly see a lot of that in shows), he expected that of Carrie. I'm fine with that. He was the nice, settled man and she was the drama queen.

As for Charlotte-she was the person to obsess over babies from the very beginning. I'm not surprised she did!

The only thing I would perhaps change was Miranda marrying Steve. I don't think MPK could handle the original Miranda lol It would be nice if she and Steve lived together but did not marry for a long time... resulting in a quickie town hall wedding. As unemotional and simple as Miranda could make it!

Edited June 4, 201312 yr by YRBB

Original Upstairs Downstairs was tied for #79 on the list... I came across it on netflix and loved it! I guess Downton Abbey is a modern day version of it? I've never seen DA, but based on the summaries, it sounds like a reboot of sorts.

Roots is # 62 on the list... I guess that is a mini-series as well

I remember how huge Lonesome Dove was as a kid, though my parents told me I was too young to watch it with them LOL

I think they should have excluded currently running programs from the list.. but then people would cry foul on that as well.. so perhaps they should have done two seperate lists?

I agree they should have had two lists...

OK I obviously didn't read this well--Lonesome Dove is a miniseries too (and apparently the original and at least one of the sequels are very good--but not some of the later ones, but I've never seen or read the McMurty novels--McMurty also wrote Last Picture Show, and the screenplay of Brokeback Mountain.)

Upstairs Downstairs is brilliant, although I find it kinda fizzles out (and the more comic spin off never attrracted me.) They re-ran it here when Iwas a teen and I was hooked, and have just started re-running it here again. It also was a huge phenomenon--a bit like DOwnton Abbey has been, but more so, one of the first times PBS really had such a buzz show (the first was probably the earlier, shorter UK serial version of Forsythe Saga.) Complete with a flop US remake (Beacon Hill set in Boston). It also was both a hugely popular hit and a critical darling (A number of soa books from the time go on at some length that while they love the show, it basically is a well done soap opera something they felt critics ignored.)

Downton Abbey isn't a reboot, but it obviously would not have existed without U/D. I like Downton, but I think the original U/D is the more important and better show. Unfortunately the Upstairs/Downstairs reboot that di happen 2-3 years backj, and lasted two short seasons, just wasn't as good as it should have been (it's co-creator who helped write the original did speak out publicly abut Downton stealing her ideas, although U/D's reboot seemed to have been done by the BBC to compete with CHannel 4's DOwnton.)

ITV runs Downton, so it's ad supported (in the UK at least).

Edited June 4, 201312 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

I meant ITV (does Channel 4 run ads? I can't remember...)

Channel 4 has ads, as well. Downton is definitely ITV, though. It doesn't look/feel like a 4 show at all.

Edited June 4, 201312 yr by All My Shadows

Leap Years went the usual tragic/dead gay route but was a little less forced than QAF.

I liked QAF more when they moved away from the UK stories and I could focus on characters beyond boring, plastic Brian and Justin. With that said it was never a great show (everything with the lesbians was especially strange), although I do think some of their stories were worthy of praise, like the Ben/Michael relationship, and their adopting an HIV-positive teenager.

Sisters was a nice little show the first few seasons, until it started taking itself too seriously. The Georgie molestation plot was reprehensible.

That was one with false memories from a shrink (and she fell in love with him or something?) right? blah.

I actually agree with all of that about the QAF remake. Besides some truly strange or offensive stories, I think it suffered from believing somehow it represented all gays/lesbians (I actually have heard the writers pretty much say as much.) For good and some would argue bad, Davies with the UK original made a point that he was just focusing on a handful of characters and by no means intended to represent different groups of gay men (he wasn't even interested in the lesbians except with how they related to the lead characters.)

I don't think I even rememeber enough about Leap Years to have noticed the tragic gay cliche...