We all here on the baord praise soap past greats such as Doug Marland, Harding Lemay, Henry Sleasar, Bill Bell, Agens nixion etc. Did these great ever writers write any story flops? If so which stories were they?

Claire is a very good writer but a lot of her stories were all over the place, although I guess that can be blamed on network interference. Some that couldn't, and which even she derided later on, would be things like Tom's tumor on Ryan's Hope.

Or what about her brief run at OLTL? Some good stuff initially, but while she wasn't given much of a chance on the show, I don't see her era being written as it is because of interference...If she hadn't been so strong at GH (did she write with her son there?) I would wonder if she works best with the unsung Avila... A bit like Malone and Griffith (at least their first run--the stuff was only mildly better the second run when Griffith was there before he left due to Frons)

He probably forced her to watch this:

HA isn't that the miniseries that Mister Daytime Confidential brought back up in his tweets to prove to Vincent that he was his number one fan?

^That aside, LB made Erica and Dixie neighbors in Oakhaven, all but said "Oh look how shiny, David put Erica in that panic room, and bankrolled Jane" and then NOTHING. Absolutely nothing. One scene where Erica accused David of maybe doing it, stabbed him, he's laying there bleeding pleading for her not to be arrested and then....she just left it. Gaping holes. And we never did learn why Dixie was so afraid of David or what he actually did to her. Ugh. That whole thing pissed me off beyond belief.

Yeah the only defence I could have is this somehow has to do with that second body cliffhanger for PP? But really that could hardly explain most of it.

Edited December 15, 201113 yr by EricMontreal22

Or what about her brief run at OLTL? Some good stuff initially, but while she wasn't given much of a chance on the show, I don't see her era being written as it is because of interference...If she hadn't been so strong at GH (did she write with her son there?) I would wonder if she works best with the unsung Avila... A bit like Malone and Griffith (at least their first run--the stuff was only mildly better the second run when Griffith was there before he left due to Frons)

I could say that OLTL stuff was down to network interference. I don't know. The Kelly apology tour story is one of the worst I have ever seen anywhere. Not even getting into the random clown school story.

Edited December 15, 201113 yr by CarlD2

C'mon random clown school REEKS of the times Claire allows her whimsy to go too far.

Yes, it does, although it was mostly a harmless story. A lot of her stories were kind of filler, stalling for time. I did like the Cramer secret but I loathed Mel and his family judging and berating 24/7.

You know...I love Claire. But this...this is the stuff of parody.

To this day, I'd like to know whether the wrong turns taken with Tom Desmond were the result of uncertainty about the character or actor, increasing network interference, or the combination of the two. It's one of those times when you can literally feel a story falling apart before your very eyes.

Pretty much every character they brought in to be a third party to their established couples tended to fail (the exception was Rae). I guess the recasts of Faith, then Pat, didn't help.

Or what about her brief run at OLTL? Some good stuff initially, but while she wasn't given much of a chance on the show, I don't see her era being written as it is because of interference...If she hadn't been so strong at GH (did she write with her son there?) I would wonder if she works best with the unsung Avila... A bit like Malone and Griffith (at least their first run--the stuff was only mildly better the second run when Griffith was there before he left due to Frons)

Frankly, Claire Labine came along in this business about 25 years too late. Her brand of simple, character-driven writing would have been much more successful on the early TV soaps (there's a reason why she & Paul Avila Mayer worked so well on LOVE OF LIFE) or even on radio.

Any clunkers for Lemay. Carl? I hae not seen his name yet

I know people thought Lemay really started to lose it his last year or so at AW--not all his fault but he did suddenly rely on the soap staples he had worked SO hard to avoid (and been so outspoken about)--like court trials, etc. It also sounds like he never really figured out how to start his own soap with Friends and Lovers as much as I wanna see it (and it only got 6 months). Didn't people think his very brief AW return didn't do much? And I didn't get a sense that when he later was at AW as consultant or at ABC as consultant he did much either, though those consultant positions can be fishy--I get the feeling when someone is listed as creative consultant more often than not they don't get listened to anyway...

He also had a tendency, I get the feeling, as many HWs do, to want to focus more around his own creations--and of course he thought that some fan faves were "too soapy" and let them go, mostly NOT to the show's benefit.

Edited December 16, 201113 yr by EricMontreal22

Thanks Eric. Thanks for that insight. I knew Lemay consulted on later years on AW I wondered how much influnce he had.

I didn't see many listed for Irna Philips I do recall reading something ske killed some one off walking up the stairs and and I've heard her last stint at ATWT was terrible

He probably forced her to watch this:

I remember watching that miniseries when it aired in the fall of 1990. The highlight was Eric Braeden using his natural German accent when he was playing a character that was so obviously based on Aristotle Onassis. Like the producers didn't think the audience could tell apart a German accent from a Greek accent.

Re Irna

Lisa's phantom pregnancy.

Killing off Paul Stewart and David taking Ellen to a bar to get her drunk to break the news.

Killing off Liz Stewart with the famous'fall up the stairs'

These all happened when Irna returned in 72/73

Either Irna was out of it by 1972, or she was sabotaging AS THE WORLD TURNS deliberately.

I think she felt she had valid reasons which were going to help the show. She thought the Dan/Susan/Liz/Paul story was disgusting. I think she felt the moral tone of the show had gone to pieces. Of course she then went wild with bringing Kim in and upending the entire moral fabric by having Bob cheat.

The only Irna story of that time which I just do not get at all is Lisa's phantom pregnancy.

Either Irna was out of it by 1972, or she was sabotaging AS THE WORLD TURNS deliberately.

I think it was both