9 minutes ago, Vee said:

It was Labine IIRC. I can't remember how/why they broke up or when or why Tom left. On paper MA should've worked and I thought he did well enough onscreen, but they just never found the right moment or partner for him.

Okay, so this might sound wacky, but I think it was because she thought Tom was stalking her, but it was actually Kevin, who was having a mental breakdown.  I think the show toyed with Tom being the real stalker because he was being a bit suspect.  Tom/Felicia break up and he sticks around through the Laura is presumed dead story and is in on the plot and I think just goes back to Africa to be with his son.  I feel like when he left Felicia might have been on one of those long trips to see Mariah in Texas, but I could be wrong.

On 3/25/2024 at 8:39 PM, Vee said:

It's pretty wild to see the mammoth investment put into the Eckerts in '91 - sweeping (and swooning) overhead shots of their big new bakery set followed by an extended tour of their entire family house, also all-new. Monty was really banking on Tony's star power putting this all over.

As I've said before, on paper I admire the ambition: If it is true that Monty hoped to emulate the UK soaps/Eastenders by introducing a working-class ethnic family en masse that's something I can get behind theoretically in the right circumstances, and I've also always wanted a modern American soap to experiment with the UK model of bringing on a whole family unit at once. (It historically never works here when rarely done, but times have changed and you might as well try it with the right characters, such as for example Liz's doctor sister Sarah and family on GH.) I also said already that I'm impressed with the scope of the S.S. Tracy event, its immediate ramifications for the larger canvas and how it introduces Mac, the Eckerts, etc. all in one fell swoop - Robert, Anna, Ruby, Bobbie, Tracy, etc. carry a lot of that stuff in the earlier eps with the disaster itself. But while JJY is immediately winning as Mac, the Eckert characters are not just compelling enough to make all this work and the post-sinking February episodes in particular have the regular GH vets seeming like guest stars in a show entirely about the Eckerts lol.

It does amuse me seeing jolly Frank(?) Eckert with his loving wife and remembering Tony's later interview (one of many retcon backstory interviews he gave for Bill) declaring that Bill's father beat their mother for years. Okay?

Finian O'Toole is funny but Mac is real quick to eat lunch out of an empty morgue drawer. Couldn't be me. How did this dude turn out to be part of the cartel or whatever?

I'm in early December, 1990, so I am a few weeks away from the massive overhaul. These types of overhauls typically don't work because it is too easy for viewers to tune out during the rebuilding stages. In their original form, the Eckerts aren't incredibly interesting, but they are, more importantly, so disconnected from the established canvas. So many scenes are like from a brand new show. I did like the condensed and repackage Eckerts by early 1992, but that is quite a road to get there.

I appreciated the reference to Eckert's a few weeks back when Kristina offered to take Danny there on the way home from the hospital. 

Finian goes on his own journey where he ends up murdering Nancy Eckert,going to to jail, and then ending up as caretaker for Sly (though maybe he was the nanny before going to jail, I don't recall). Finian is pretty typical of that era. There are also whole slew of patients at the community center Mac has to do his court appointed community service at that get quite a bit of air time for a few episodes. More kooky comic relief.

On 3/26/2024 at 9:00 PM, Vee said:

@dc11786 the Jagger/Karen/Jason triangle got heavily referenced on today's GH, FYI.

I've sat through the last few weeks because of Mulcahey's return. I don't have a lot to say about that particular aspect. It did answer my question whether or not Jason knew about that part of his life. Harrington doesn't bother me as a recast, but it does make me realize that Sabato, Jr., has a special quality about him even if he wasn't always the strongest actor. 

20 hours ago, Vee said:

 

On another 1992 note no one asked for: Has anyone else seen the early Felicia return material in June of '92 and gotten the distinct impression they were heavily testing Scott and Felicia? They have a number of cute banter scenes with him looking after Maxie (who they keep calling "Max") and have pretty solid chemistry, and their vaguely improvisational energy works well together. But honestly Kristina really returned gangbusters overall from what I can see, and more than proved herself solo here IMO - she dominates a bunch of scenes with Felicia sweeping across the canvas doing what seems like odd jobs, with hilarious stuff with her working at the PCPD with crooks at the line-up, etc. I've always respected how strong and funny KW was as a slice of life player in the Labine era with JJY, Kimberly, Jon Lindstrom, etc. but she really has even more of a vivacious spark than I remembered. I don't know if this is when her real IRL troubles with Jack Wagner started but it seems like she came back eager to prove herself without him and Frisco as a solo heroine, and for a good stretch of years I think she succeeded. It's nice to be able to admire that again after the Luke/Felicia years brought her so low. Kristina is a lot rustier and less spontaneous a comedienne these days than she was back in the '90s, but she's still got a lot of emotion and heart onscreen when it counts and I'm glad she's still here. I do wonder when they started the move towards Mac and Felicia.

Scott doesn't have a lot to do in early 1992 romantically so I am not surprised if they teased Scott/Felicia. I've seen some of those episodes, but considering how clear it was to me that Felicia/Mac were going to be a thing, I may not have picked up on it. 

It'd funny. What stood out to me in the 1990 episodes I am watching is how much of a supporting character Felicia is in this era without any agency and limited ties. At Max's christening, which is quite an event, only Mariah is there to represent Felicia. All her ties are through Frisco. Wagner must have been more comfortable than Edie Lehman at playing the second fiddle. In contrast, as you stated @Vee, Wagner is such a presence in the early Riche. Her second bout of amnesia opens the character up to be pretty carefree and whimsical. From there, Kristina Wagner just seems to make anything they throw at her gel. In terms of looks, and occasionally energy, I get a real Michelle Pfeiffer vibe from her in 1992-1993 episodes I have seen. I'm a little disappointed she hasn't appeared in anything I've seen in 2024 yet.

I'm not sure when 'Maxie' became her name, but she is Max at the time of her birth. It is actually Tiffany who calls her Maxie in one-off line of dialogue, but she is always known as Max in 1990. 

Re: the original plan for Kevin/Felicia vs. Kevin/Lucy in 1993-94, I am pretty sure Kin Shriner's departure was unexpected and the Labines had planned much of what became Kevin/Lucy's material for Lucy and Scott, no?  So my guess is Kevin and Felicia was the original plan.  The question is how long-term.  Speaking of Ashford's Tom, maybe the original story with him and Felicia was a reworked version of a long-term story for Kevin and Felicia, after she was done with both Mac and Felicia and Ryan was dead.  Tom was also a psychiatrist, right?

1 hour ago, dc11786 said:

I'm not sure when 'Maxie' became her name, but she is Max at the time of her birth. It is actually Tiffany who calls her Maxie in one-off line of dialogue, but she is always known as Max in 1990. 

I sort of wish the nickname stayed Max.  Although I used to Maxie as name by now it will never not remind me of a feminine hygiene product and gave me lots of giggles as a teen.

14 minutes ago, DeliaIrisFan said:

Re: the original plan for Kevin/Felicia vs. Kevin/Lucy in 1993-94, I am pretty sure Kin Shriner's departure was unexpected and the Labines had planned much of what became Kevin/Lucy's material for Lucy and Scott, no?  So my guess is Kevin and Felicia was the original plan.  The question is how long-term.  Speaking of Ashford's Tom, maybe the original story with him and Felicia was a reworked version of a long-term story for Kevin and Felicia, after she was done with both Mac and Felicia and Ryan was dead.  Tom was also a psychiatrist, right?

With no actual evidence, I tend to agree the Lucy/Kevin stuff would work for Scott/Lucy and Kevin/Felicia was perhaps the original plan.  Hard to say because Kevin certainly needed some levity to the character and Felicia as a partner would have messy.

I could see perhaps Tom/Felicia being molded into an alternate version of Kevin/Felicia but their actual romance was weird.  I think MA's Tom was a psychiatrist, but I think the previous version of Tom was just a regular Dr.  I could be absolutely wrong though.  I always assumed Tom was supposed to play more into the Simone/Justus romance and Labine lost interest or her whole story was compromised with RC's untimely death IRL.

2 hours ago, dc11786 said:

In terms of looks, and occasionally energy, I get a real Michelle Pfeiffer vibe from her in 1992-1993 episodes I have seen. I'm a little disappointed she hasn't appeared in anything I've seen in 2024 yet.

She's been around a pretty reasonable amount with Maxie, Spinelli, etc. (I think she is still on contract again) in B-story, and she also starred in the wonderful Jackie Zeman memorial episodes, where they did a bit of a riff on her "Barbara Jean!" moment. She did very well with that, probably because she and JZ were close.

I just can't get past the visual on Adam Harrington as Jagger, even if I think he's doing a good job and the material has improved dramatically since the regime change. I still wish they'd cast someone like Paul Anthony Stewart, who I expect is out of daytime for good.

Like they ended up doing with Kevin/Lucy, I could see the Labines, Val Jean, et al having fun paying homage to '40s romantic comedies with Scott/Lucy (just a different kind of '40s romantic comedy).  Especially after I just discovered the week of Lucy interrupting Scott and Katherine Bell's wedding is now on YouTube and watched that.

I am curious about how a number of the plot details would have worked if Scott had been in Kevin's place.  As it ended up playing out, the impetus for Lucy getting involved with Damian and making that bet was her grief at the loss of Serena.  So maybe Scott and Katherine would have continued slightly(?) longer (yawn) and/or Scott would have stayed mad at Lucy for a while, to the extent that he would have been in PC but vindictively kept Lucy from Serena after she was born.  I imagine Scott would have gradually come to his senses and let Lucy back into his and Serena's life around the time she met Kevin in the version we saw, but of course Lucy couldn't have confided in Scott the terms of the bets the way she did with Kevin, because of his history with Bobbie.  And Scott would have been furious when he did find out, leading to another rift.

Edited March 30, 20241 yr by DeliaIrisFan

13 hours ago, Jdee43 said:

Watching the Lucy and Felicia scenes of the mid 90s, has anyone ever noticed their lesbian undertone, that Lucy was always subtly flirting with and having her hands on Felicia? It was never in the dialogue, but all in the energy; more in how the actors would play their scenes together. I always felt like the actors were just having fun with it, adding a subtle level to their interactions for whoever saw and noticed.

I haven't noticed anything personally with Lucy and Felicia, but there are definitely lesbian undertones in several of Lucy's other relationships. There is a scene during Lucy's marriage to Alan where she goes toe to toe with Tracy in an argument that ends with Tracy kissing her on the cheek which I thought was an interesting choice. Also, when Lucy is pregnant with Serena, Lucy and Dominque get some stares at GH when they mention they are having a baby together.

I think Lucy having a sexual undertone to any relationship makes sense. She was typically around men either through romantic or platonic relationships. Her bringing that same energy to a platonic female relationship makes sense. 

8 hours ago, carolineg said:

IIRC, they started moving Mac and Felicia together during the Ryan story.  She was still married to Frisco for awhile when she came back.  Although I appreciate JJY as Mac I do think he got quite lucky with the Felicia pairing.  Mac would have been truly gone ages ago without it.  He pretty much floundered in every other pairing he had, but most were pretty ill conceived and not entirely his fault.

I think Monty chemistry tested Mac and Felicia during the brief period when Jack Wagner left and before Kristina also jumped ship (June-November). This was picked up pretty much immediately in June, 1992, but I do think they were probably testing out other areas.

Mac and Felicia were definitely gold in 1992-1993. I think Mac and Shell Danielson's Dominque were good but burned through story super fast. I don't think Dominque and Mac had the potential for longevity at the end of the day. I've only seen a little of Mac and Katherine and it didn't really inspire me. 

7 hours ago, carolineg said:

That I don't know.  It feels like such an odd pairing to me, but so does Felicia and Luke and that happened.  Didn't Scott have quite a bit going on at the time?  It's so hard to say with all the behind the scenes upheaval.  And the show couldn't figure out what to do with Holly let alone Mac.  I have a feeling Mac might have always been in mind for Felicia, but as a temporary pairing.  I do think the show always wanted Jack Wagner back permanently although I don't know the timeline between this and his gig on Melrose Place exactly.

When Felicia gets back in May, 1992, Scott is basically lawyering and setting up Deception. I don't think they really get into Scott and Dominique until July or later when they have the Los Angeles adventure. In May/June, Scott would be defending Monica Quartermaine and the staff of GH in the lawsuit brought on by Nikki Langton over the death of her father, David. They also briefly tested Scott with Jessica Holmes, who initially worked with Nikki during the law suit and then later became D.A. I think Nikki's suit was civil, but I may be wrong. 

6 hours ago, carolineg said:

I don't think the wrong choice was made regarding Lucy/Kevin at all.  I do remember Felicia and Kevin having a vibe, but the timing was probably way too off given Felicia was pregnant/just had a baby and the Ryan situation.  I can't recall if Felicia/Tom was a Labine creation or mostly Guza, but the idea sounded decent on paper and I don't think MA/KW were without chemistry.  The relationship just played out so oddly sexual and cringe-y.  It was still playing out in 1997, so a few writers had a hand in it I suppose.  

Felicia returns in March, 1995, and has the baby at Outback. I want to say Tom comes back around April/May, 1995. I think I only made it to early June, 1995, in my viewing but they were already doing Tom and Felicia and it didn't really work for me. It felt like they were trying to pair Ashford with someone who looked like and had energy similar to Melissa Reeves, but the characters didn't work. 

And someone asked about Tom being a psychiatrist. He was one when David Wallace was in the part as well. I don't know if he was when he first came on, but by 1990, he is a psychiatrist. 

22 minutes ago, dc11786 said:

I think Monty chemistry tested Mac and Felicia during the brief period when Jack Wagner left and before Kristina also jumped ship (June-November). This was picked up pretty much immediately in June, 1992, but I do think they were probably testing out other areas.

When Felicia gets back in May, 1992, Scott is basically lawyering and setting up Deception. I don't think they really get into Scott and Dominique until July or later when they have the Los Angeles adventure. In May/June, Scott would be defending Monica Quartermaine and the staff of GH in the lawsuit brought on by Nikki Langton over the death of her father, David. They also briefly tested Scott with Jessica Holmes, who initially worked with Nikki during the law suit and then later became D.A. I think Nikki's suit was civil, but I may be wrong. 

 

Thanks for all your feedback and memories!  Some things get a bit jumbled in my mind especially if I was not super invested in it.

I remember Mac/Holly more in that era more than Felicia/Mac.

I thought Scott was with Dominique or it was heading that way at that time, but it makes sense that I was off by a few months or so because edits especially warp the passage of time lol.

28 minutes ago, dc11786 said:

Mac and Felicia were definitely gold in 1992-1993. I think Mac and Shell Danielson's Dominque were good but burned through story super fast. I don't think Dominque and Mac had the potential for longevity at the end of the day. I've only seen a little of Mac and Katherine and it didn't really inspire me. 

I don't remember much about Mac/Dominique at all.   I do think there was something there with Mac/Katherine honestly, but it got really convoluted really fast.  It's another one of those things that on paper seems like a decent idea.

32 minutes ago, dc11786 said:

Felicia returns in March, 1995, and has the baby at Outback. I want to say Tom comes back around April/May, 1995. I think I only made it to early June, 1995, in my viewing but they were already doing Tom and Felicia and it didn't really work for me. It felt like they were trying to pair Ashford with someone who looked like and had energy similar to Melissa Reeves, but the characters didn't work. 

And someone asked about Tom being a psychiatrist. He was one when David Wallace was in the part as well. I don't know if he was when he first came on, but by 1990, he is a psychiatrist. 

So if I am getting the timeline right Ryan/Felicia happen first, Maxie's heart issues next, Felicia and Frisco conceive Georgie and she gives birth, Felicia is at the brownstone and meets Tom, and then the Kevin stalker stuff happens?  

Considering Kristina also looks a bit similar to Missy Reeves I can totally see how that makes sense.  They just went the wrong way with that romance.  

Thanks about Tom.  I knew MA's was but for some reason I thought Wallace's Tom had a larger role at the hospital maybe more administrative or head of something as well?

32 minutes ago, carolineg said:

So if I am getting the timeline right Ryan/Felicia happen first, Maxie's heart issues next, Felicia and Frisco conceive Georgie and she gives birth, Felicia is at the brownstone and meets Tom, and then the Kevin stalker stuff happens?  

Yep. I would argue it's primarily the massive Ryan saga with Felicia (and some Karen/Jagger, and maybe the Lucas custody drama?) that got the show through the post-Monty doldrums til Labine; at least that's how my ex, who started watching in early '92, saw it. I was watching some of that stalker stuff again recently, it's good. Hadn't seen it in many years, including Felicia's brief 'dark' phase following the stalker story. I don't think KW did badly with it but it is pretty jarring to see Felicia completely shut down on warmth.

Mac and Katherine always seems so bizarre to me when I see them together again. I think they were trying for good guy/bad girl but I did not care about Katherine like that. Mac and Felicia were already home for me as a viewer because they'd spent so much time on building them together (including before I started watching in late '93) and as a family unit with Robin, etc. I will say I think MBE is exceptional as Katherine then and now, a total departure from Kayla. She always brought 100% even when the audience detested her for years lol. Leigh McCloskey is still very good as Damian too.

Edited March 31, 20241 yr by Vee

6 minutes ago, Vee said:

Yep. I would argue it's primarily the massive Ryan saga with Felicia (and some Karen/Jagger, and maybe the Lucas custody drama?) that got the show through the post-Monty doldrums til Labine; at least that's how my ex, who started watching in early '92, saw it. I was watching some of that stalker stuff again recently, it's good. Hadn't seen it in many years, including Felicia's brief 'dark' phase following the stalker story. I don't think KW did badly with it but it is pretty jarring to see Felicia completely shut down on warmth.

Mac and Katherine always seems so bizarre to me when I see them together again. I think they were trying for good guy/bad girl but I did not care about Katherine like that. Mac and Felicia were already home for me as a viewer because they'd spent so much time on building them together (including before I started watching in late '93) and as a family unit with Robin, etc. I will say I think MBE is exceptional as Katherine then and now, a total departure from Kayla. She always brought 100% even when the audience detested her for years lol. Leigh McCloskey is still very good as Damian too.

I think Katherine was much more of a challenge for MBE.  Katherine was really what I knew her from because her time on Days was a bit before my time and it was almost jarring at first to see her as sweet Kayla lol.  I have never really had too many good things to say about Katherine's run, but I never blamed MBE.  I think pairing her with Stefan just really ruined anything fun about the character.  Plus, it ruined a perfectly soapy Bobbie/Stefan pairing which I really did like.

I liked LM as Damian too and his story always felt slightly unfinished.  Like perhaps there was more to do with Frank Smith's son?  I always think it was crazy MB was offered Damian or Sonny and chose Sonny.  I can't picture him as Damian at all.

8 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I liked LM as Damian too and his story always felt slightly unfinished.  Like perhaps there was more to do with Frank Smith's son?  I always think it was crazy MB was offered Damian or Sonny and chose Sonny.  I can't picture him as Damian at all.

If they truly had to bring someone back from the dead for Luke's exit I'd have chosen Damian. He's really a great villain rewatching now, he even comes on with links to Ned from their school days. He slots in everywhere and is such a sexy snake. I remembered his story spinning its wheels later on as a kid (and I think it got into some real goofy capers with the good guys putting stuff over on him before he died) but he's fun to watch. And it's fascinating rewatching Sonny slowly build his empire from a small time hood to a major player in the power vacuum post-Frank. I never really grasped that when I was young. I did not know MB was offered Damian - that's nuts, and yet Damian was the character who had true investment at the time of hiring. Even today they could bring on Damian's illegitimate kids, a la Damian to Frank.

Quote

I have never really had too many good things to say about Katherine's run, but I never blamed MBE.  I think pairing her with Stefan just really ruined anything fun about the character.  Plus, it ruined a perfectly soapy Bobbie/Stefan pairing which I really did like.

I just think Katherine makes a great villain and MBE played it very well. I enjoy watching her. I do agree Stefan and the DAYS revisit ruined it (and Stefan/Bobbie, which I am trying to revisit some of).

Edited March 31, 20241 yr by Vee

1 minute ago, Vee said:

If they truly had to bring someone back from the dead for Luke's exit I'd have chosen Damian. He's really a great villain rewatching now, he even comes on with links to Ned from their school days. He slots in everywhere and is such a sexy snake. I remembered his story spinning its wheels later on as a kid (and I think it got into some real goofy capers with the good guys putting stuff over on him before he died) but he's fun to watch. And it's fascinating rewatching Sonny slowly build his empire from a small time hood to a major player in the power vacuum post-Frank. I never really grasped that when I was young. I did not know MB was offered Damian - that's nuts, and yet Damian was the character who had true investment at the time of hiring. Even today they could bring on Damian's illegitimate kids, a la Damian to Frank.

I just think Katherine makes a great villain and MBE played it very well. I enjoy watching her. I do agree Stefan and the DAYS revisit ruined it (and Stefan/Bobbie, which I am trying to revisit some of).

I read MB's biography during Covid and he was offered a contract for Damian and a recurring, short term role as Sonny.  He's mentioned it a bunch of times elsewhere too.  He chose Sonny because it was shorter term and if he hated it he could leave and pursue other opportunities.   Obviously MB didn't hate it lol.   Sonny's rise was really well done.  It's was a combination of luck and determination.  First with Frank Smith's death, then Damian's troubles, then Sonny takes out Joe Scully, then marries Lily and her father "dies" leaving him money and power.   A lot of events just fall in his favor for him to rise to the top, IMO, and he grabs them.

Damian or his family would have been a much more solid Pikeman backer then any of this Wagger nonsense, but I guess it's not to be.

I never have been a huge Steve/Kayla fan, but I do think they are good enough as a couple.  Stefan/Katherine somehow managed anti-chemistry with one another.  

12 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Damian or his family would have been a much more solid Pikeman backer then any of this Wagger nonsense, but I guess it's not to be.

Valentin (and Ava, hopefully) works for me for Pikeman - I suspect the original writers' plan was for Wagger to be deep in it as a bad guy, which, no lol. And the rumors about it originally being Jennifer Smith or Susan Moore, no. I just don't think we need another undead bad guy plotline right now. I would be all for adding Damian's young heirs as troublemakers.

Edited March 31, 20241 yr by Vee

9 hours ago, carolineg said:

Okay, so this might sound wacky, but I think it was because she thought Tom was stalking her, but it was actually Kevin, who was having a mental breakdown.  I think the show toyed with Tom being the real stalker because he was being a bit suspect.  Tom/Felicia break up and he sticks around through the Laura is presumed dead story and is in on the plot and I think just goes back to Africa to be with his son.  I feel like when he left Felicia might have been on one of those long trips to see Mariah in Texas, but I could be wrong.

I'm trying to remember - did Kristina leave during this period because her contract talks had broken down? I know at the time there was a lot of talk of how she was barely used. Then she came back in the summer for the doll story that was abandoned.

7 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Then she came back in the summer for the doll story that was abandoned.

I still want to know more about that. It sounds bonkers.