I think it will be different mostly because it's not going to be on any TV network. That means different expectations. There may also be more of a chance for AMC and OLTL because they are a little better known, and have the potential to, with the right material, reach a broad audience. Passions was so extremely niche and strange in its last years. You can't really expect a ratings boost when your main story is about a hermaphrodite who rapes and castrates members of his family.

I don't know that at the times Passions was cancelled they were performing any more poorly than OLTL and AMC are now. As far as mainstream, your point seems to be that OLTL and AMC might have succeeded where Passions didn't on DTV because they were more Mainstream and I don't agree. THey aren't performing great on network TV and whats more mainstream than that. As I said if its just taking whats being shown now on network TV and putting it on an online channel, big deal. And no I don't think it will be that because it can't be.

Exactly. I am condemning Agnes for selling her shows to ABC. It was a bad business move which rendered her spayed. She's not doing anything of the like: "still working her business at 90." She's being crumb-fed by a corporate entity that decides to pull her out whenever they want to use her and, as Susan Lucci publicly stated, bar her from the show(s) when they feel necessary. She is NOT in control, no matter how you spin it. Like I said... Erica being a girl sold into pedophilia, when Nixon's original intentions for the character was to be a girl with an abandonment complex... if Nixon had control, that wouldn't be. Also, Nixon's intention on doing something socially relevant as having Erica have the first televised abortion after Roe v. Wade become nothing more than a sci-fi experiment gone wrong? That's equal to having Nixon's Carla/Sadie Grey story be "Carla was really white all along... black Sadie just adopted her."

We see things differently. So be it. I have no real problem with your hostility toward Agnes. I have a problem with you hating on Agnes for not knowing what couldn't have been known since no one could've/

Perhaps now the writer/director/showrunner you like (whoever that mythical person might be) will be able to step in.

Oh, God, Sinclair, it was business and it happened decades ago. This is the sort of rage a newbie pulls out six months after coming here - you've been here years!

Oh, God, Vee... nothing you say disproves me of the fact that it was a shi business move perpetuated by a woman who hasn't ONCE stood up for the desecration of her work these last 30 years. Show me where Nixon has all of a sudden become savvy enough to say "Hey! The future of my shows will be online and I'm going to make it happen!" Then, and only then, I will sing the praises of Kick Ass Agnes Nixon saving her shows. Are you able to, Vee? Or are you just going to repeat that it happened decades ago? Because, after all, the decisions we make in the past have NOOOOOOO effect on the results of the future. So, go... You and marceline can celebrate the notion that Agnes was the one who kept her shows alive. However, I will continue to stress the fact that she's had no say for YEARS over the life of these shows... and that ABC and Prospect Park only made a decision on a financial basis.

Edited July 8, 201114 yr by R Sinclair

Exactly. I am condemning Agnes for selling her shows to ABC. It was a bad business move which rendered her spayed. She's not doing anything of the like: "still working her business at 90." She's being crumb-fed by a corporate entity that decides to pull her out whenever they want to use her and, as Susan Lucci publicly stated, bar her from the show(s) when they feel necessary. She is NOT in control, no matter how you spin it. Like I said... Erica being a girl sold into pedophilia, when Nixon's original intentions for the character was to be a girl with an abandonment complex... if Nixon had control, that wouldn't be. Also, Nixon's intention on doing something socially relevant as having Erica have the first televised abortion after Roe v. Wade become nothing more than a sci-fi experiment gone wrong? That's equal to having Nixon's Carla/Sadie Grey story be "Carla was really white all along... black Sadie just adopted her."

Interesting points, R Sinclair; however, I am not as certain that Agnes in control would do things differently. She gave Michael Malone her blessing to turn Victor Lord into a pedophile, which was anathema to longtime fans such as myself and irrevocably destroyed a character that was so beautifully created by Ernest Graves. I do not think Agnes is below pandering to bad taste when it seems to suit the idiot audience they are after.

One other point, Erica's abortion was BEFORE Roe v Wade not after. I do not care what the history books have documented. They are incorrect. Erica's abortion was even more historical for this very reason. It even preceded Bea Arthur's abortion on Maude, which undeservedly hogged media attention for the plot when AMC had done it earlier and better.

If the WSJ article was accurate, it seems PP has paid or will pay millions to ABC each year in license fees. That's kind of shocking for an online show. It makes me think they are going to have to charge for the shows in order to make any kind of profit on this venture.

I don't know that at the times Passions was cancelled they were performing any more poorly than OLTL and AMC are now. As far as mainstream, your point seems to be that OLTL and AMC might have succeeded where Passions didn't on DTV because they were more Mainstream and I don't agree. THey aren't performing great on network TV and whats more mainstream than that. As I said if its just taking whats being shown now on network TV and putting it on an online channel, big deal. And no I don't think it will be that because it can't be.

Passions was canceled 3-4 years ago, when all the soaps had higher ratings. How it performed then isn't where it might be now.

I also don't know if there will be the same expectation for a web channel as there was for Direct TV, which had a wider audience.

I never said they would have succeeded on Direct TV. I have no idea they would have. Direct TV didn't exactly take a lot of time with Passions. What I said was that I don't believe Passions had the mainstream appeal to get better ratings.

I don't believe that OLTL and AMC as they are now will be taken and put onto the web channel. I think there will be radical changes. Those changes may just kill the soaps once and for all. Or they might be a new lease on life. Either way, I can't say it's an automatic failure just because of Passions.

I don't know that at the times Passions was cancelled they were performing any more poorly than OLTL and AMC are now. As far as mainstream, your point seems to be that OLTL and AMC might have succeeded where Passions didn't on DTV because they were more Mainstream and I don't agree. THey aren't performing great on network TV and whats more mainstream than that. As I said if its just taking whats being shown now on network TV and putting it on an online channel, big deal. And no I don't think it will be that because it can't be.

I concur, JaneAusten. The platform has nothing to do with it. People are missing the point. Soaps are not in trouble because they are telecast on network television. They are in trouble because they are garbage and packaged for too small an audience. Shallow, unlikeable characters playing out derivative, inane plots with banal, illiterate dialogue. You literally could not pay me enough money to sit and watch AMC or OLTL for an hour, and I remember the days when I would rearrange my life to not miss a single second of either. If the soaps are to truly be saved and continue, the new producers will have to change more than the broadcast platform. I could care less about the sets or production. Give me interesting, engaging stories, heartfelt dialogue, and characters with whom I can relate. I will watch happily. But all the money in the world and best production values cannot entice me to watch a badly written soap. Instead of continuing to lower the bar, they must raise it. And, they must respect those of who are over 34 and desire real drama instead of a serialized comic book.

It's a separate group, and ABC is licensing the shows to them, so ABC still maintains some control.

Thanks for clearing that up, I guess this is sort of still bad news b/c Prospect Park probably won't be able to bring them to television as long as SBC is tied to them.

I concur, JaneAusten. The platform has nothing to do with it. People are missing the point. Soaps are not in trouble because they are telecast on network television. They are in trouble because they are garbage and packaged for too small an audience. Shallow, unlikeable characters playing out derivative, inane plots with banal, illiterate dialogue.

I think a lot of this is down to the soaps being broadcast on today's network television. People like Brian Frons being put in a position of such power was devastating for this genre. He has been trashing soaps for 30 years.

I believe that the genre might be revived - not in terms of big ratings but in terms of quality and a strong message and sense of individual identity - if they move away from today's regressive and lazy, offensive networks.

I think a lot of this is down to the soaps being broadcast on today's network television. People like Brian Frons being put in a position of such power was devastating for this genre. He has been trashing soaps for 30 years.

I believe that the genre might be revived - not in terms of big ratings but in terms of quality and a strong message and sense of individual identity - if they move away from today's regressive and lazy, offensive networks.

Your suggestions are the reason I am not completely rejecting this news. I have spent a decade hoping that I will live long enough to see this genre turn itself around, and I believe that it can be salvaged. I am optimistic, yet I also remain pragmatic. As Harold says in the Boys in the Band, "Time will undoubtedly tell."

By the way, I appreciate your kind comments on my most recent uploads. If someone were giving us that kind of soap, only contemporary, I have no doubt that the genre would be revived. Fine writing and complex characterization are everything.

Your uploads are so rare and such a joy to watch. They're also a blueprint to soaps' future. I just hope someone who has power over casting and writing decisions will look at some of your episodes and see how it should be.

I mostly just want some validation, at some point, that the basic tenets of soap opera are the keys to its success. Soaps have been running away from this for years and years in favor of various fads, and finally just outright bigotry. I hope this will be a reevaluation for what soaps can be and used to be.

I concur, JaneAusten. The platform has nothing to do with it. People are missing the point. Soaps are not in trouble because they are telecast on network television. They are in trouble because they are garbage and packaged for too small an audience. Shallow, unlikeable characters playing out derivative, inane plots with banal, illiterate dialogue. You literally could not pay me enough money to sit and watch AMC or OLTL for an hour, and I remember the days when I would rearrange my life to not miss a single second of either. If the soaps are to truly be saved and continue, the new producers will have to change more than the broadcast platform. I could care less about the sets or production. Give me interesting, engaging stories, heartfelt dialogue, and characters with whom I can relate. I will watch happily. But all the money in the world and best production values cannot entice me to watch a badly written soap. Instead of continuing to lower the bar, they must raise it. And, they must respect those of who are over 34 and desire real drama instead of a serialized comic book.

Thank you for saying this, You articulated this better than I have been I guess.which is why I said I don't care if the writers or producers of the current shows move over because they are part of the problem and that includes the writers that get heralded here a lot also. The idea of paring the cast down to a core group of characters like any other network show to maybe 10 or 12 to be seems like a great idea and then add in additional cast members as needed for story arcs. I guess we'll see what happens.

How does SOAPnet play a role in all this? What does this mean for Ron Carlivati's pending move as a script writer at General Hospital? Where and when will they debut? All these questions and more are on all of our minds tonight. I'm currently finishing up a piece that answers at least one of these questions, and several more based on some info I got from several people today, but as soapsindepth was told, ABC/PP isn't announcing anything further at this time officially.

I had been working on something in the vein of Broadcast News about the death of a soap opera over 12 months and the whole process of trying to save it - and failing, for the most part, though with some glimmer of a future. Now, obviously, the slight twist I had in mind does not seem so off-base.

I wouldn't mind seeing them go to "arcs" and "seasons" a la PC. I also think rotating some of the cast would be smart.

Edited July 8, 201114 yr by Vee

I concur, JaneAusten. The platform has nothing to do with it. People are missing the point. Soaps are not in trouble because they are telecast on network television. They are in trouble because they are garbage and packaged for too small an audience. Shallow, unlikeable characters playing out derivative, inane plots with banal, illiterate dialogue. You literally could not pay me enough money to sit and watch AMC or OLTL for an hour, and I remember the days when I would rearrange my life to not miss a single second of either. If the soaps are to truly be saved and continue, the new producers will have to change more than the broadcast platform. I could care less about the sets or production. Give me interesting, engaging stories, heartfelt dialogue, and characters with whom I can relate. I will watch happily. But all the money in the world and best production values cannot entice me to watch a badly written soap. Instead of continuing to lower the bar, they must raise it. And, they must respect those of who are over 34 and desire real drama instead of a serialized comic book.

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