So true about GH agressively rewriting history! The Rick Webber return and Heather's obsession with Luke with were the most ridiculous. I mean, I watched GH religiously from 1978 til 1986 and I don't recall Tony Geary and Robin Mattson ever sharing a scene together. The Rick Webber was a huge head-scratching WTF! Short-term shock value stunts that are executed with little thought about how they ruin the integrity of the characters and the show turn viewers away.

The Rick Webber rewrite was definitely huge but I think Ethan being a Spencer was the biggest WTF. Ethan fit in perfectly to be the child of Robert and Holly. The timeline was perfect for when Holly was believed dead but was really in a coma. The Australian con-artist was carrying around a picture of Robert and Luke and so I just *knew* Ethan was a Scorpio. I even thought, there is no way TPTB would mess around with Luke & Laura's (the biggest couple ever) history like that. I was positive Ethan would be revealed a Scorpio. Then they had some nonchalant episode where Ethan gets a text saying he's Luke's son. WTF? I was so mad that I turned off GH right then and never turned it on again.

But is that damaging or consistency? Brooke made quite a bit of progress in her relationship with Thorne only for her to go right back to Ridge for no reason. The same thing happened to Taylor in her relationship with Nick. It's gotten so bad that the show feel suffocating whenever one of the characters gets into a "new" cause it will eventually end up with them regressing anyway.

Oh its definetly regression. The show takes 2 steps forward and then 5 steps back. After the first 3 or 4 times, it becomes laughable and not worth watching bc you know the predictable outcome of the stories. I actually thought both Brooke and Taylor worked quite well with Nick initially and its ending those and going back to the triangle with Ridge, that's ultimately ruined them.

Oh and another thing that needs to be mentioned is that ever since Brooke slept with Deacon, the show has been one scandal after the other. Too many outrageous sexual stunts done for shock value, and they keep trying to top themselves by trying to find out ridiculous ways to justify so and so sleeping with someone they have no business being with. This current thing with Brooke and Thomas may have been controversial 10 years ago, but now? Everyone expcted it the minute he went through puberty bc its whats expected of the current incestuous tone of the soap show.

AMC: Jean Passanante (or however you spell her surname) as HW. OMG, she sucked so bad.

Oh and another thing that needs to be mentioned is that ever since Brooke slept with Deacon, the show has been one scandal after the other. Too many outrageous sexual stunts done for shock value, and they keep trying to top themselves by trying to find out ridiculous ways to justify so and so sleeping with someone they have no business being with. This current thing with Brooke and Thomas may have been controversial 10 years ago, but now? Everyone expcted it the minute he went through puberty bc its whats expected of the current incestuous tone of the soap show.

Not to mention Brooke JUST slept with Oliver right before that.

For me;

AMC-Julia Barr leaving AMC!

Agreed. The last time I was really into AMC and thought it was pretty great was Edmund's death, when Brooke was brought to the forefront. Shortly after though, it all fell apart. Her departure combined with Zendall eating the show was what killed it IMO. Thorsten may be popular, but for my money, he didn't have the kind of chemistry with Minshew to justify the show revolving around them.

I always thought Minshew was better with Jacob Young and Thorsten Kaye did his best work against Eva LaRue.

The real blow to Passions (other than its debut) was Josh Ryan Evans death.

Between his actual death & the way Passions handled the aftermath the show was never the same.

ITA! Passions was NEVER the same once Timmy was gone. And I do agree that the endless storylines with NO payoff didn't help either.

AMC: Felicia Minei Behr's arrival in 1989, and her subsequent trashing of everything that made AMC unique among soaps.

I couldn't disagree with you more there. I really liked FMB's AMC and thought AMC was pitch-perfect from '94-'98. After that, it was never quite the same for me, though they did have periods of greatness.

Fusion itself wasn't so bad as much as the incessant Ryan, Carlos & Juan Pablo stuff.

Now THAT was terrible.

:lol:

I forgot all about Juan Pablo, one of the WORST characters of all-time.

AW: Most people would say Frankie's murder in '97. That definitely had an impact but a few months later AW wrote out John Bolger and Robin Christopher whom were a fan fave couple. The show then went on to write out Kale Browne/Anna Holbrook/David Forsyth. They were all popular vets that drove story for years! (Didn't Matt Crane and Robert Kelker Kelly leave around this time voluntarily? Tho Matt returned near the end.)

This was a mass exodus for a show already on the brink. I feel this is what put them over the edge.

Ok a couple of issues here:

1. Frankie's murder, while gruesome and unnecessary, was not the fatal blow. She was always a second tier character who was generally well-liked and while some may consider it the fatal blow for Cass (I don't- I preferred Lila anyway, who came after), I don't think it was fatal to the show.

2. John Bolger & Robin Christopher were NEVER a fan-fave couple and quite honestly, I don't know how you ever got that impression. Bolger was not even a popular character and RC was always considered an inadequate replacement for the far superior Alicia Coppola. Some characters just cannot be recast because a certain performer leaves an indelible stamp on the role. Coppola's Lorna is one of them.

3. Robert Kelker-Kelly was universally disliked in his second go-round on the show and Matt Crane had zero story at the time of his departure, so those exits had minimal impact.

IMO, the departures that REALLY hurt the show were Anne Heche and Paul Michael Valley. Heche leaving was a HUGE blow, as she was a major presence as Vicky and while Buchanan eventually became popular I guess, she didn't have the fire or ferocity Heche had and never filled the gaping hole she left behind. PMV leaving a few years later was the nail in the coffin for many, if not me.

Honestly, though, AW never really had a death blow for me. I enjoyed the hell out of the final 2 years and the show still had some of the greatest characters in daytime, like Rachel, Donna, Felicia, and Cass. Ferguson & Crane's returns as Amanda & Matthew, Ellen Wheeler's return as Marley, Alice Barret's return as Anne, and Lisa Peluso coming on as Lila Roberts also helped make the show great again.

The only thing missing was Heche and it was that way from her final airdate on, so I'd say she was the true death blow.

I think it was the decision to gut the Matthews family. They were AW's core family and viewers were deeply invested in most of them. They were also a contrast to the rich and powerful, without being an overly pronounced contrast, the way the Frames were. The Frames were also populated by actors who wouldn't stay around, whereas most of the Matthews probably would have.

I think the Matthews leaving definitely impacted the show and changed it very much. But A LOT of GREAT stuff came after that, like Harding Lemay's tenure, Rachel/Mac/Iris, St. Croix, etc... It wasn't the death blow by any means.

Here's mine:

Santa Barbara- Marcy Walker's departure in 1991. The show never was the same without Eden and it wasn't ever going to be. Yes, you can point to the Dobson's being locked out of the building in 1988 as a HUGE death blow to the show and certainly where the show lost its way. It still had some strong stories and an excellent cast when they were gone, but it lost some of its cache. Their return in 91 was too little, too late, as Walker was leaving and they were saddled with a terrible storyline for her departure. They did their best and I think had they stayed on longer, the show probably would have recovered.

But the real nail in the coffin was them vacating the head writer spot and being replaced by Pam Long. The Paul Rauch/Pam Long combo was just all kinds of wrong for SB and they never really "got" the show. Bringing on the Walkers and allowing Kim Zimmer to eat the show didn't help matters either, as most SB fans already didn't care for Zimmer (she was often in competition with Marcy at the Emmys and just not liked by most SB fans). SO MANY things were wrong about SB's final year that can be attributed to Pam Long- the Walker family, Cruz's daughter with Jodie (BJ), Warren/BJ coupling, the DiAngelis BS, Eileen Davidson as Kelly (one of the WORST recasts of all time), the Cruz/Kelly pairing, Mason & Julia being backburnered, the list goes on and on. The only thing the show did right was pair Ted & Angela together (Michael Brainard & Nina Arveson were dynamite) and they even mucked that up by having Ted marry Lily in the end.

B&B- Thorne & Brooke breaking up in a day and her going back to her obsession with Ridge. Brooke had come SO FAR as a character that for them to regress her and have her chase Ridge again was shameful. KKL & Winsor Harmon had the most intense, electric chemistry I've ever seen on B&B and probably would be in the top 10 soap couples of all-time as far as chemistry goes. The fact that B&B never paired them up again is ridiculous and the show never recovered from their breakup IMO.

Y&R- For me it was when Lynn Marie Latham took over. The show still has not been able to recover from her horrible reign of terror!

B&B- For me it is the endless Brooke/Taylor/Ridge. It is funny how Brad can never write for anyone else.

ATWT- Death of Douglas Marland, and then the whole Kasnoff family with Mark, Mike and Sarah, and Zoe crap. The whole David Steinbeck crap, and Lucinda being written off.

GL- Time traveling Reva. I didn't mind cloned Reva, but Time traveling Reva was enough. I also got sick of the Santos, and San Cristobal.

Edited June 16, 201114 yr by dsvd79

GH - The yearly Quartermaine Dismissal

This family slowly but surely, became the heart of GH. Everyone was connected to them in some way or another, from family, to relationships...the Quartermaines had a part everywhere on the canvas. But then Guza started to treat them as the foundation to build up his pet projects Sonny, Jason, and Carly. Jason worked really well in the beginning, the whole troubled Quartermaine angle worked..but instead of treating him like the "thug" he was, they constantly had the Quartermaines propping him up to be some God, and often times at the expense of the Quartermaines themselves. Its become a joke, when sweeps come...everyone fears for the worst, and starts counting down till the next Quartermaine bites the dust. We've lost AJ, Lila, Alan, Justus, Jake, Alan, Emily, Ned, Skye, Dillon...and basically Monica and Edward. If Tracey wasn't married to Luke, her ass would be gone to. It is ridiculous. This family could have been so much more, they flourished in the 90's and into the mid 00's, around them the show had some of its best moments in the past decade.

Edited June 12, 201114 yr by Ms. Chandler Quartermaine

GH - The yearly Quartermaine Dismissal

This family slowly but surely, became the heart of GH. Everyone was connected to them in some way or another, from family, to relationships...the Quartermaines had a part everywhere on the canvas. But then Guza started to treat them as the foundation to build up his pet projects Sonny, Jason, and Carly. Jason worked really well in the beginning, the whole troubled Quartermaine angle worked..but instead of treating him like the "thug" he was, they constant;y had the Quartermaines propping him up to be some God, and often times at the expense of the Quartermaines themselves. Its become a joke, when sweeps come...everyone fears for the worst, and starts counting down till the next Quartermaine bites the dust. We've lost AJ, Lila, Alan, Justice, Jake, Alan, Emily, Ned, Skye, Dillon...and basically Monica and Edward. If Tracey wasn't married to Luke, her ass would be gone to. It is ridiculous. This family could have been so much more, the flourished in the 90's and into mid 00's, around them the show had some of it's best moments in the past decade.

Amen.

But is that damaging or consistency?

I'm a bit softer on Brad: I think it's both. Problem is that storytelling has sped so much in the last ten years that the back and forth has gotten extremely exhausting. Brad's strokes of genius which he has every once in a while are simply overwritten by it.

As a backdrop those constants in LA are very good to produce a good show but you have to have some characters on the sidelines which are pivotal and evolve. Like on Y&R where Ashley, Victor, Nikki, Jack all have NEVER changed. They're still as pathetic on many levels as they were in the 80s when it comes to their love lifes. But characters like Lauren (before she became Mrs. Stepford), Brad or Traci have really grown and matured and are interlinked with the contsant interlopers as lovers or family. This is missing on B&B where nobody gets wiser: case in point Amber!

I'm a bit softer on Brad: I think it's both. Problem is that storytelling has sped so much in the last ten years that the back and forth has gotten extremely exhausting. Brad's strokes of genius which he has every once in a while are simply overwritten by it.

As a backdrop those constants in LA are very good to produce a good show but you have to have some characters on the sidelines which are pivotal and evolve. Like on Y&R where Ashley, Victor, Nikki, Jack all have NEVER changed. They're still as pathetic on many levels as they were in the 80s when it comes to their love lifes. But characters like Lauren (before she became Mrs. Stepford), Brad or Traci have really grown and matured and are interlinked with the contsant interlopers as lovers or family. This is missing on B&B where nobody gets wiser: case in point Amber!

To be fair though Victor/Nikki/Jack/Ashley have changed. They all still do & say stupid things but Brooke/Ridge/Taylor is just ridiculous. Whenever Brooke/Ridge or Taylor/Ridge reunite it's just to reunite there's never any real repercussions or any progress as far as their relationships go. Pretty much the endgame IS the story.

Edited June 12, 201114 yr by DeeeDee

To be fair though Victor/Nikki/Jack/Ashley have changed. They all still do & say stupid things but Brooke/Ridge/Taylor is just ridiculous. Whenever Brooke/Ridge or Taylor/Ridge reunite it's just to reunite there's never any real repercussions or any progress as far as their relationships go. Pretty much the endgame IS the story.

Correct me if Im wrong, Victor/Nikki/Ashley triangle hasnt been a constant presence on the show since it started right? Ever since the Brooke/Ridge/Taylor triangle started 21 years ago, it feels as if the writers go there every single year. The only real long break from it was the 2 and a half years that Taylor was dead between 2002 and 2005. Other than that, it's teased and flat out done all the time. Even when they move onto other partners (Thorne, Nick, Whip, etc...) it doesnt seem to last long at all before this triangle kicks up yet again. I dont know Y&R's history like that but I didnt think V/N/A was as consistently done like these 3

When Megan McTavish was brought BACK in 1998 to become AMC's HW. Worst decision ever. Second and third time were NOT the charm,

Correct me if Im wrong, Victor/Nikki/Ashley triangle hasnt been a constant presence on the show since it started right?

Only to an extent.

The triangle's been an extremely significant part of the characters lives but all three characters have (at one time or another) legit moved on to separate relationships. Not dead end romances like Whip/Brooke or Taylor/Rick but functional successful relationships outside of the N/V/A triangle.

With Ridge, Brooke & Taylor the story is just winning Ridge.

Ever since the Brooke/Ridge/Taylor triangle started 21 years ago, it feels as if the writers go there every single year.

Exactly.

Edited June 12, 201114 yr by DeeeDee

It's only been in the last ten years that they haven't allowed Ridge's siblings to have any stories whatsoever. They don't seem to realize that Ridge having no real family (I can't count worthless Eric, and Stephanie is more like his wife) just hurts the character. Meanwhile the people they DID bring back family for, like Brooke, didn't need it, and I can't think of one time that the recasts of Katie, Storm, or Donna (not even getting into the Beth fiasco) helped Brooke's story.