1 hour ago, Lust4Life76 said:

And I give Erika Slezak props because she had the character to defend herself against that allegation in writing (I think in the press, and "Llanview in the Afternoon").

It was actually in her online fan newsletter, and pretty blunt lol. She's always been very candid there, particularly before she realized it had reach outside her devoted audience which is part of what led to Dena Higley's (welcome) firing In the 2000s.

1 hour ago, EricMontreal22 said:

Wait, @Vee what was Call's stated reason for not returning for the OLTL finale?

What Lust4Life mentioned. Judith Light claimed to the press she'd never heard anything about that but was too busy, but she may have been being diplomatic.

I do remember they seemingly retconned Terri Conn's con artist character Aubrey/Kristine onscreen into actually being Katrina Karr's daughter Kristine Karr, which made me wonder if Ron had done that to try to tie her to a Karen return. I thought that was so dumb.

1 hour ago, chrisml said:

You're right Holly felt anger at Slezak becoming the star as Holly was finally ousted in such a humiliating way. Holly was most likely viewed as a troublemaker for speaking up as most women and especially women of color are. With Slezak becoming more popular and usurping her role, I can see where Holly would be furious and put all of her anger on Slezak.

The irony of it all is that in watching some of their late '70s or early '80s stuff, scenes with Carla and Sadie talking about Ed and Carla getting emotional over what they've lost, it is uncanny how similar I find Holly and Slezak's mannerisms and emotional connection with the camera. Color aside they're doing the same things onscreen, and very well.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by Vee

13 minutes ago, EricMontreal22 said:

Right, ALL of this scans with what I know and have seen of the era. Some time back in this thread I did find a quote from O'Shea basically about why she left OLTL (although it was unclear if it was her decision or she was fired, but basically she started to not like what Rauch was pushing for...) S. Michael Schnessel was able to do the full on camp Rauch wanted and deserves credit for that--he left in 1990 because of illness (and would pass away from AIDS related illness in April 1992) but of course already by 1990 it was clear that style of OLTL had peaked and in general at the turn of the 1990s there was a push for daytime soaps to go back to the basics (ironic of course because just a few years later DAYS would shake everything up with JER's storytelling there.)

I think S. Michael Schnessel understood how to tell a story, how to plot and plan... but there was just no regard for the past, and that's a shame - because Llanview had a very rich backstory. It seemed that was a Paul Rauch mandate - like "don't bother me with details, we'll make it work, it'll be great". Like one glaring example, Kevin Lord Riley is born in 1976, Drew Buchanan - 1983? 1988, Drew returns with Becky Lee for Didi Buchanan's funeral, but Drew is older than Kevin? Same thing happened with Ty McGillis. That's sloppy continuity.

One character/history I would have LOVED to have revisit in 1987, when Dorian leaves, Viki's other antagonist Cathy Craig comes on - played by Jennifer Harmon. She was already referenced during the kidnapping of Jessica, so Cathy Craig follows up with a return to her hometown. Not only is Cathy someone who struggled with mental health, and crushing life events - now you have her seeing the ghost of Joe Riley in his twin brother Tom Dennison, and you have a Clint/Viki/Tom/Cathy quadrangle that plays out... And when we experience the Eterna story and the truth that Viki gave birth to a baby girl named Megan - Cathy loses it. Having Sharon Gabet come on as Melinda, with no Dorian, and then become a tv reporter, when she was a pianist, proved to be a story path to resistance vs had it been Cathy. *And if they couldn't get Jennifer Harmon, Sharon Gabet as Cathy would have been fine...

As for Soaps in the 90s? I don't know what to think, if the OJ Simpson trial hurt the soaps as much as they say. I think productions ruined themselves with bloated casts and the emphasis on youth due to focus groups... and character assassinations and of course continuity issues

I've said this at least once this year, but I still wonder if Malone II had intended for Daniel Colson's ex-wife to be Cathy Craig. Daniel explicitly said she was a journalist who had looked up to and/or worked with Joe Riley, hence naming their son (Riley) for him. Cathy was a writer who got her start working with Joe before they became involved. It felt like a clear setup.

6 minutes ago, Vee said:

I've said this at least once this year, but I still wonder if Malone II had intended for Daniel Colson's ex-wife to be Cathy Craig. Daniel explicitly said she was a journalist who had looked up to and/or worked with Joe Riley, hence naming their son (Riley) for him. Cathy was a writer who got her start working with Joe before they became involved. It felt like a clear setup.

See, and I had heard the ex-wife would be Julie Siegel.

Just now, Lust4Life76 said:

See, and I had heard the ex-wife would be Julie Siegel.

I definitely never heard that one, but I'm all ears.

Great discussion. Here's what Peggy O'Shea had to say

Peggy O'Shea left her job as the headwriter for the soap “One Life to Live” last month. After 12 grueling years in the business, she says she’ll never go back “I’ll never headwite again,” says O’Shea, who was earning $113,500 a week devising plots for ABC’s popular afternoon drama. “They can't pay me enough to keep doing it How can I say it more dramatically?” Her point, she adds, is not that she feels underpaid, but that she won’t put up with increasing network interference — even for $702,000 a year.

Other headwriters share her complaint, and voice it as quickly. With the competition heating up for a share of the daytime airwaves, they say, network executives have taken to second guessing the writers who once had total control over the turns and twists of the steamy daytime plots. “The joke in the industry is that the networks discovered that writing the soaps was too important a job to be left in the hands of the writers says O’Shea. The headwriters devise the intricate plots on the shows, and direct breakdown and dialogue writers, who turn the action into scenes and words. Ten or fifteen years ago, the headwriter was the dictator of the daytime drama, choosing the writers and giving the final word on the plots, O’Shea says. And the soaps were snugly in the favor of the networks. Daytime television, which attracts a fanatically dedicated audience, was a staple in the networks’ programming, providing profits as surely as soap opera characters had affairs. But those golden days are gone. Cable television, independent networks and videcassette recorders are stealing away a good-size chunk of the audience the major networks once held captive.

47 minutes ago, Lust4Life76 said:

See, and I had heard the ex-wife would be Julie Siegel.

I don’t recall where but I thought they asked that actress to return around 9/11 and that’s why it didn’t work out?

Her being married to Daniel would’ve made more sense because I was wondering where her 2001 ties would’ve been?

59 minutes ago, Lust4Life76 said:

I think S. Michael Schnessel understood how to tell a story, how to plot and plan... but there was just no regard for the past, and that's a shame - because Llanview had a very rich backstory. It seemed that was a Paul Rauch mandate - like "don't bother me with details, we'll make it work, it'll be great". Like one glaring example, Kevin Lord Riley is born in 1976, Drew Buchanan - 1983? 1988, Drew returns with Becky Lee for Didi Buchanan's funeral, but Drew is older than Kevin? Same thing happened with Ty McGillis. That's sloppy continuity.

One character/history I would have LOVED to have revisit in 1987, when Dorian leaves, Viki's other antagonist Cathy Craig comes on - played by Jennifer Harmon. She was already referenced during the kidnapping of Jessica, so Cathy Craig follows up with a return to her hometown. Not only is Cathy someone who struggled with mental health, and crushing life events - now you have her seeing the ghost of Joe Riley in his twin brother Tom Dennison, and you have a Clint/Viki/Tom/Cathy quadrangle that plays out... And when we experience the Eterna story and the truth that Viki gave birth to a baby girl named Megan - Cathy loses it. Having Sharon Gabet come on as Melinda, with no Dorian, and then become a tv reporter, when she was a pianist, proved to be a story path to resistance vs had it been Cathy. *And if they couldn't get Jennifer Harmon, Sharon Gabet as Cathy would have been fine...

As for Soaps in the 90s? I don't know what to think, if the OJ Simpson trial hurt the soaps as much as they say. I think productions ruined themselves with bloated casts and the emphasis on youth due to focus groups... and character assassinations and of course continuity issues

This is probably blasphemy but I had imagined up what if Nora had actually been Cathy Craig, even if she was going by Nora now. The timeline wasn’t perfect but Cathy could’ve left, met Hank and RJ, had Rachel and then returned later and Nora was a strong independent woman and it would’ve been a tie to the past and a way to bring Anna back for visits as her stepmother.

What became of Cathy makes absolutely no sense - for me tied with phasing Carla into the background the worst of the first decade

I can't imagine what possible ties a Siegel would have today. I did once brainstorm having Viki hire an obnoxious Siegel grandson (Julie's kid or grandkid) to help revamp the Banner and he clashes with Kevin and turns out to be a nightmarish Will Lewis or Sulzburger type who almost runs the paper into the ground.

14 hours ago, Lust4Life76 said:

You're totally right — would any celebrated actress want to return after that? There are so many unknowns about Ms. Hayman’s feelings, or even Ellen Holly’s at that exact time, because there simply wasn’t a platform for them to speak. Regretfully, Lillian Hayman passed away in 1994, fairly young at 72.

And no, I don’t think you’re wrong in your perception. There were a lot of feelings about Paul Rauch completely clearing the canvas of people of color after he fired Hayman and Holly. However, I remember the canvas a bit differently — because I started watching regularly in the summer of ’85 at age nine. He did fire two veteran actresses who helped put One Life to Live on the map, and he kept Al Freeman Jr. recurring — despite Freeman being an Emmy winner. Total mistreatment of a glorious talent.

Rauch did hire Blair Underwood as Bobby Blue, a bad boy opposite Laura Carrington’s upper‑class Lisa Baron. Lisa also had a father, Bart Baron (played by Lloyd Hollar), and Bart’s mistress Stella, who I believe was involved with Bobby. Then Ed Hall’s doctor‑son Joshua returned, played by newcomer Guy Davis, to date Lisa — but it was strange, because his adoptive mother Carla and adoptive grandmother Sadie were no longer on the canvas.

There was a bit of star power with John Amos (from Good Times) cast as Officer Bill Moore of the Llanview PD.

My theory is that Paul Rauch wanted to “elevate” One Life to Live to a prime‑time feel — but prime time in the 1980s was nothing compared to the gritty social relevancy of the 1970s. I think that, to Rauch, the characters of Sadie, Carla, and Ed were “socially relevant,” so he felt they had to go or be muted, because he wanted glamour and action. It was a superficial move on his part, and frankly ignorant, especially given his appreciation for stage actors (he employed many on Another World).

Even with seven characters of color on the canvas — each performer charismatic — they were not prominent in story. There was further diversity in Al, Maria, and Cord Roberts, and Kim (the late Wai Ching Ho). But aside from Cord and Maria, as you noted — and as Erika Slezak herself remarked at OLTL’s 20th anniversary — what began as a story about a melting‑pot community became all about the wealthy and white.

As for Holly coming back… interesting question. It seems the creative differences were between Holly and producer Joe Stuart, who was known for being tough. I don’t think the conflict was ever between her and the network, but someone out there may know more.

1986 is impressive though that Rauch has succeeded in this grand drama with Viki/Niki. The cast is still diverse. Cord and Maria’s Mexican roots are mentioned often, even with the addition of the Sanders family being Jewish is features prominently in the scripts.

Ellen and Al, in the little available, have both a theater and Old Hollywood vibe. I just can’t fathom how no one can adhere that to a mature storyline.

Josh being a doctor didn’t make much sense to me, neither did Carla being a lawyer. I would’ve preferred Carla as maybe a psychologist, and Llanview was full of crazies for years!

I wouldn’t trade the Iguazu Falls, Heaven, Old West, Eterna or even Mendorra as I think it is a blast but it was possible to do this while keeping the social themes and alive and not reducing Llanview’s population.

These are from a 1988 Ebony Article. I thought people might find it interesting considering the discussion. IT touches on black characters on daytime past and present at the time.