But the truth is this is a vehicle for the young maid. She will be the new teen lead and Angie and Jesse will ham it up in the corners of episodes.

I think Jesse was far more despicable with the other family than here...

And while it is wrong for him to lie to Angie and keep the baby, maybe it won't look so bad since the baby has been abandoned... it would definitely be different if he went out and took someone's child but if the idea is this child was in essence thrown away maybe Jesse won't look too bad here.

Your scenario sounds so good.

I think that Jesse might get some sympathy from some people in this storyline, maybe moreso early on. But I could see him coming out of this storyline with a lot of damage done to his character. I could see him getting more and more desperate as he tries to keep up this lie about the baby and doing some really desperate things to make sure Angie doesn't find out the truth. Things that are going to wipe away some sympathy people might have for him in the beginning of this storyline. And things that could make him look pretty bad. And I could see this lie going on for a while because it's a HUGE Lie and Huge lies usually going on for a while,sometimes a long time. I wonder how desperate Jesse will get and the things he will do in that desperation as he keeps up this lie.

I could see him getting more and more desperate as he tries to keep up this lie about the baby and doing some really desperate things to make sure Angie doesn't find out the truth. Things that are going to wipe away some sympathy people might have for him in the beginning of this storyline. And things that could make him look pretty bad. And I could see this lie going on for a while because it's a HUGE Lie and Huge lies usually going on for a while,sometimes a long time. I wonder how desperate Jesse will get and the things he will do in that desperation as he keeps up this lie.

I agree... and it would be even more devastating if we find out that the baby's mother didn't abandoned her (I am assuming its a girl) or she could even think her baby is dead... and if Jesse discovers this and still keeps up the facade, even for Angie's sake, I think he would be damaged and even more so if he takes steps to keep this girl in the dark about her baby...

It would be so ironic because Madison was blasted for letting Randi think she killed Henry... for Jesse to let an innocent girl think her baby is dead or lost to her forever... yikes!

Edited March 24, 201114 yr by Sleepy

Unlike the babyswitch this has ZERO impact!

I think Jesse was far more despicable with the other family than here...

And while it is wrong for him to lie to Angie and keep the baby, maybe it won't look so bad since the baby has been abandoned... it would definitely be different if he went out and took someone's child but if the idea is this child was in essence thrown away maybe Jesse won't look too bad here.

Your scenario sounds so good.

See, that's what I think too. This isn't the kind of baby switch that does deep damage to a character, imo. He's not taking a baby away from a mother that loves her. He's taking a baby that was unwanted and giving her a loving home. The bigger problem is telling a huge lie to his wife, but people are forgiven for that all the time on soaps.

I have no idea if this will be a good story or not, but I don't think it's the same as what KWAK did. It's closer to a woman telling a paternity lie, allowing someone to think they have a child that is theirs biologically when they don't. Yes, it's wrong, but I don't see it as anywhere near as bad as stealing a child from it's mother.

Edited March 24, 201114 yr by Juliajms

THIS!

To me this feels like once again Frons wanting something good on AMC decimated. It's what this show does.

Yep.

It's ok though.

When AMC canceled it's canceled that will be it.

but people are forgiven for that all the time on soaps.

How many are Black?

I'm as conflicted as you are. I'm hoping that Broderick will have some influence here because I have no faith in these writers.

But I just keep seeing this anger that Jesse and Angie are being written as anything less then perfect and I can't get on board with that. Sure they could've given J&A a child with Down's but I don't know how that translates into drama worth watching on a show that has more kids than Romper Room. Not to mention that leaves them with no real interaction with anybody else. And how is that not "piling on?" (Honestly anything that happens to Angie as long as she's blind is "piling on.")

If neither Jesse nor Angie is allowed to do anything wrong or stupid, then what the hell are they supposed to do on this show besides listen to everybody else's problems? Or mess with David which only makes them look self-righteous and annoying. What story is there for J&A? They aren't going to flirt with other characters or break up the way Jackson/Erica, Tad/KWAK, KWAK/Adam and every other couple/character in their peer group has. They don't have any ex-lovers on the canvas so no drama there. Angie sure isn't going to work at Fusion. Jesse isn't going to go to work at Cortlandt, Chandler or the casino and since he's a cop, he's at everybody else's beck and call just like Derek was.

What story do these two characters get that's about them if they aren't allowed to screw up?

I definitely think that if Frankie was used more this could help Angie/Jesse out with potential storyines. I do think that like you said that one of the biggest reasons Frankie is hardly used is because of Randi. And I blame K&S and Pratt for that, because IMO, they had opportunities to free Frankie from Randi, but they chose not to do so. I think that Pratt knew Frankie/Randi did not work and I think he pretty much said so, yet he didn’t free Frankie from Randi. And I think he was considering writing Frankie out at one point. K&S just don’t care about Frankie to write for him with Randi or without Randi.

But I do think that if Frankie was used more this could help out Angie/Jesse with potential storylines. Some storylines they could do involving Frankie/ Angie/Jesse is have Frankie’s son with Mia again and have him show up in PV. Have Frankie meet him, maybe feel instantly connected to him, and vice versa. And then Frankie could learn the boy was his son and think he’s might not be that happy with whoever he’s living with, and Frankie could decide to fight for custody of the boy. And they could get Angie and Jesse involved with that storyline and maybe even have them on opposite ends of that issue. Or they could have Frankie/Randi’s marriage fall apart and have Angie/Jesse on opposite ends of that.

Also as far as Angie/Jesse being written less than perfect, I think that Jesse is definitely written to be less than perfect and does corrupt stuff. I think that Angie is the one that’s hardly written as doing no wrong and while I like that the show wants her to be a pretty moral character, I do think that too much of that writing can limit the type of storylines her and Jesse could get. I think that maybe the writers should consider giving Jesse/Angie and also Frankie some storyines similar to the ones that some of the other characters get. They could do this and still keep Angie a decent person overall.

I think it could be interesting if Angie got a storyline where a man fell in love with her and tried to test her marriage to Jesse. It could be a man from her past from one of the times she was single, it might could be someone on canvas or it could be a new guy altogether. But I think that something like this could be interesting and something different for Angie and Jesse. I know that some people don’t want to see something like this but it would be something different for Angie/Jesse. And she wouldn’t have to necessarily end up cheating on Jesse, but she could be drawn to the other man and that could cause a strain on her marriage to Jesse.

Angie is not Erica or Krystal but I don't see why she couldn't get a storyline where another man was at least romantically interested in her. Even if the writers ended up keeping her pretty moral throughout the storyline and didn't let her really cross a big line with the other guy. I think that something like this and the show giving Frankie more storylines could give the Hubbards something else to do besides happy storylines (which I do like) and "woe is us" storylines.

Edited March 24, 201114 yr by xtr

Unlike Bianca/Babe babyswitch there's NOBODY to cheer for!

But I just keep seeing this anger that Jesse and Angie are being written as anything less then perfect and I can't get on board with that.

Anger at Jesse & Angie being written as anything less than perfect?

...Really?

Wow.

Sure they could've given J&A a child with Down's but I don't know how that translates into drama worth watching on a show that has more kids than Romper Room.

Doesn't Kendall have special needs kids?

If neither Jesse nor Angie is allowed to do anything wrong or stupid

Now you're just trolling.

Or mess with David which only makes them look self-righteous and annoying.

God forbid ANYBODY pass judgment or have moral highground on Saint David.

What story is there for J&A?

Better they have no story then be happy then have this garbage that will further destroy them as individual characters & as a family unit as a whole.

What story do these two characters get that's about them if they aren't allowed to screw up?

"Jesse has two families".

How much good did THAT do to or for Jesse?

What good did it do for the Hubbards in general besides introduce Natalia who's no longer on the show?

How much airtime did Debbi, Darnell, Laura, Cornelius or Shannon get to shine?

How did Frankie & Cassandra feel about Natalia?

What were the ongoing emotional repercussions of the story for the family unit as a whole?

How well did fans react to Jesse during (and after) that particular "story"?

....Exactly.

Edited March 24, 201114 yr by DeeeDee

Honestly, it just seems like one demeaning storyline for the Hubbards after another. Jesse the bigamist, Jesse the impotent police chief, Blind Pregnant Angie, now Jesse the baby thief, sure to ham his way to the moon. I didn't believe Jesse could run around as a bigamist and pro for hire, and I don't believe he could do this. I'm with Dee. It is not an issue of "boring happy coupledom," it is not an issue of them not making mistakes, it is an issue of giving the couple a story that works without relying on stale, tacky dead baby tropes which were already as old as the hills by the time OLTL introduced little Sam Manning/Tommy McBain, or mutilating their characters to make those stories work. There are a million and one exciting things AMC could've done - including the aforementioned flirtation with someone like David. They chose to do something this gruesome and exploitative, for the umpteenth time. I don't consider that equality, I just consider it bad story no matter what race the character is.

Exactly.

It's JUST like what's about to happen with Nora & Matthew on OLTL where the choice is either Nora being a killer twice or BOTH her kids being murderers. It's sick.

Frankly, the more I think about this, the more I'm both surprised and not surprised by it. Don't get me wrong: this stinks for every reason Dee, Vee, and so many others have so eloquently explained. There were definitely other ways to deal with "Blind Pregnant Angie," let alone give her and Jesse something to do, w/o resorting to baby-switching.

And yet...and yet...

It just shows to go you why so many are so willing to believe the rumors hype whatever that AMC is not long for this earth. True, when your show is ailing, you have to do something that gets people talking again and brings them back. But not at the expense of character. No way will I believe Jesse capable of passing off somebody's else baby as his and Angie's. He might find the baby, bring her into their home and explain the situation to Angie. And he and Angie might bond with "Lucy," gradually accepting her as their daughter (as well as the loss of their own), leading us all to the inevitable moment when her natural parents are located and Jesse and Angie, recalling how upset they were when they thought they had lost Frankie for good, have to give her back. But switch the babies? No woman is that blind; no baby is that dead.

But the truth is this is a vehicle for the young maid. She will be the new teen lead and Angie and Jesse will ham it up in the corners of episodes.

And she will be the one AMC expects viewers to root for (and they will) to get her baby which she will definitely want back.

He might find the baby, bring her into their home and explain the situation to Angie. And he and Angie might bond with "Lucy," gradually accepting her as their daughter (as well as the loss of their own), leading us all to the inevitable moment when her natural parents are located and Jesse and Angie, recalling how upset they were when they thought they had lost Frankie for good, have to give her back.

This would have been good too... plus Angie could have been very resistant initially... Jesse would do it to try and ease his grief... and he would do it right (the way Angie did with Cassandra by reporting it yet convincing whoever that he and Angie could care for the baby until... Frankie could even be opposed to this because his parents are grieving their child (which is a point should be explored/expressed in this kind of situation) but obviously he is over ruled by Jesse.

Angie would eventually start to bond with the baby and her grief would ease a bit and BAM! here comes the bio mother/father and now she has to face losing yet another baby.

But the truth is this is a vehicle for the young maid. She will be the new teen lead and Angie and Jesse will ham it up in the corners of episodes.

And she will be the one AMC expects viewers to root for (and they will) to get her baby which she will definitely want back.

Hadn't thought about this but it sounds about right...

Edited March 24, 201114 yr by Sleepy

I definitely think that if Frankie was used more this could help Angie/Jesse out with potential storyines. I do think that like you said that one of the biggest reasons Frankie is hardly used is because of Randi. And I blame K&S and Pratt for that, because IMO, they had opportunities to free Frankie from Randi, but they chose not to do so. I think that Pratt knew Frankie/Randi did not work and I think he pretty much said so, yet he didn’t free Frankie from Randi. And I think he was considering writing Frankie out at one point. K&S just don’t care about Frankie to write for him with Randi or without Randi.

But I do think that if Frankie was used more this could help out Angie/Jesse with potential storylines. Some storylines they could do involving Frankie/ Angie/Jesse is have Frankie’s son with Mia again and have him show up in PV. Have Frankie meet him, maybe feel instantly connected to him, and vice versa. And then Frankie could learn the boy was his son and think he’s might not be that happy with whoever he’s living with, and Frankie could decide to fight for custody of the boy. And they could get Angie and Jesse involved with that storyline and maybe even have them on opposite ends of that issue. Or they could have Frankie/Randi’s marriage fall apart and have Angie/Jesse on opposite ends of that.

Also as far as Angie/Jesse being written less than perfect, I think that Jesse is definitely written to be less than perfect and does corrupt stuff. I think that Angie is the one that’s hardly written as doing no wrong and while I like that the show wants her to be a pretty moral character, I do think that too much of that writing can limit the type of storylines her and Jesse could get. I think that maybe the writers should consider giving Jesse/Angie and also Frankie some storyines similar to the ones that some of the other characters get. They could do this and still keep Angie a decent person overall.

I think it could be interesting if Angie got a storyline where a man fell in love with her and tried to test her marriage to Jesse. It could be a man from her past from one of the times she was single, it might could be someone on canvas or it could be a new guy altogether. But I think that something like this could be interesting and something different for Angie and Jesse. I know that some people don’t want to see something like this but it would be something different for Angie/Jesse. And she wouldn’t have to necessarily end up cheating on Jesse, but she could be drawn to the other man and that could cause a strain on her marriage to Jesse.

Angie is not Erica or Krystal but I don't see why she couldn't get a storyline where another man was at least romantically interested in her. Even if the writers ended up keeping her pretty moral throughout the storyline and didn't let her really cross a big line with the other guy. I think that something like this and the show giving Frankie more storylines could give the Hubbards something else to do besides happy storylines (which I do like) and "woe is us" storylines.

AMC doesn't care about Frankie or Natalia.

Poor Shannon (like Tika) had to leave her soap to get work.

And AMC is happy to let Cornelius sit on the backburner as punishment since he wasn't able to make Vasi a good actress despite the option of recasting or pairing him with Stephanie who he DOES have chemistry with instead of making her the concubine of not one but two "well meaning" White guys.

Edited March 24, 201114 yr by DeeeDee

What good did it do for the Hubbards in general besides introduce Natalia who's no longer on the show?

How much airtime did Debbi, Darnell, Laura, Cornelius or Shannon get to shine?

How did Frankie & Cassandra feel about Natalia?

What were the ongoing emotional repercussions of the story for the

family unit as a whole?

How well did fans react to Jesse during (and after) that particular "story"?

I remember Frankie being mad at Jesse for like only a few episodes like maybe two or three, before he quickly forgave Jesse. I think it would have been more interesting if Frankie had been mad at Jesse for longer. And I think that Cornelius would have done even more good work, if this had happened. But Frankie was told to pretty much be quiet and not allowed to be angry at Jesse for what Jesse did. I think that Frankie should have been allowed to be angrier longer and Angie should have been allowed to be more angry than what she was. Angie didn't have to act like she wanted to kick Rebecca's behind and ultimately could have still had sympathy for Rebecca. But I didn't like how the Pratt tried to turn Angie/Rebecca into "Sister Wives". (I also think that K&S are trying to do something similar with Cara/Krystal right now)

I enjoyed this clip of Frankie confronting Jesse about his actions. I thought that Cornelius did good work in this and gave me some of my favorite Frankie lines like:

"Trying to get your woman to come over and play nice with me". "He cheated you, he cheated on the both of us, he's a liar, he lies" " You disgust me that's, what you do."

But this and like one other scene when he first learned Natalia was his sister after the tornado were like the only scenes we got of Frankie being mad. And I think we should have gotten more of that. I think that Cornelius would have really brought it had they let him.

Edited March 24, 201114 yr by xtr