9 minutes ago, will81 said:

I am pretty sure, without naming her, Kay Alden mentioned that Erica was too much like her character and often wouldn't even turn up and they had no other choice but to replace her. Probably why they went a slightly different direction with MTS being cast. Once bitten, twice shy and all that

No offense to Miss Hope, but LORD,  I can easily imagine that happened.  Erica Hope came across as awfully "low-rent".   And there wasn't any warmth or humor in the portrayal.   It was just -- well, it was something, lol.  

Melody was completely different.  The character was still a slut, but there was a DIM-WITTED INNOCENCE in Melody's portrayal that we hadn't seen in Erica's.  And it worked wonders for making the character's motivations seem less abrasive and grotesque.     

1 minute ago, Broderick said:

Melody was completely different.  The character was still a slut, but there was a DIM-WITTED INNOCENCE in Melody's portrayal that we hadn't seen in Erica's.  And it worked wonders for making the character's motivations seem less abrasive and grotesque. 

And that kind of character can be a writer's dream.

If the audience is on her side a Nikki like character can stumble from one (self induced ) disaster to the next without wearing out her welcome.

Way less annoying than the perils of 'Mary Sue' or some uber bitch always getting the upper hand.

5 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

And that kind of character can be a writer's dream.

If the audience is on her side a Nikki like character can stumble from one (self induced ) disaster to the next without wearing out her welcome.

 

Yes, during Erica's tenure -- now I'm speaking as a viewer who was a sweaty-palmed teenage boy -- there was a certain EXCITEMENT in seeing who Nikki would sleep with next, or what disease she might give him.  But you could easily tell there was no sustainability in a character like that.  

With Melody, we watched her hatch a scheme to model PANTIES for Rose Deville and Vince Holliday, because she genuinely thought that was the ideal stepping-stone to become a renowned model.  And it was CUTE, because she just seemed so DUMB and so misguided, but so genuine.   And poor Greg had no real knowledge that she was signing-up specifically to model lingerie and panties.  So she took the cash advance from LaPleu Belle Rose, couldn't repay it, and now she's supposed to start hooking, and she was like, "Uh-oh!" And it was CUTE.  

Then we watched her wander into a cult that she thought was a "sweet commune", because that's how dumb she and Paul were.  Again, it was CUTE.  No, it wasn't a good storyline, but it was a natural and realistic progression for those two dead-beat, naïve, not-so-industrious characters.

A year or so later, we had her STRIPPING, because that got her some applause.  Perfectly fitting for her character.  She hadn't learned a damn thing from the "modeling". 

Then we had Nikki pregnant and lying to Kevin and lying to Victor, and Kay Chancellor was rolling her eyes, waving her jeweled talons in the air, and saying, "Dear Sweet God, Nikki, of all the impulsive, foolish schemes that you have hatched -- and my dear girl, you have hatched your share and THEN some -- but this is one of your dumbest yet," and it all just really CLICKED for the Nikki character.  She was a dimwit, and it worked for her.    

18 minutes ago, Broderick said:

"Dear Sweet God, Nikki, of all the impulsive, foolish schemes that you have hatched -- and my dear girl, you have hatched your share and THEN some -- but this is one of your dumbest yet,

Chuckling...

I can literally see Jeanne delivering those lines.

Again without that vulnerability Kay/Nikki wouldn't have worked. If Nikki was just a dumb slut, Kay wouldn't have given her 5 minutes.

At what point did Nikki mature somewhat?

I think during her marriage to Victor and then affair with Jack,OG Nikki was still present.

Was it the marriage to PB's Jack that started a change? I can imagine Nikki married to Terry Lester's Jack would have had a different quality to her and the union. But Peter Bregman had a different essence and Bill wrote to that, changing Nikki a little in the progress,

What do you guys think?

24 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Chuckling...

I can literally see Jeanne delivering those lines.

Again without that vulnerability Kay/Nikki wouldn't have worked. If Nikki was just a dumb slut, Kay wouldn't have given her 5 minutes.

At what point did Nikki mature somewhat?

I think during her marriage to Victor and then affair with Jack,OG Nikki was still present.

Was it the marriage to PB's Jack that started a change? I can imagine Nikki married to Terry Lester's Jack would have had a different quality to her and the union. But Peter Bregman had a different essence and Bill wrote to that, changing Nikki a little in the progress,

What do you guys think?

Yeah I'd say the divorce from Victor and marriage to Jack changed her. Peter always acted like he was doing Shakespeare and I guess his overly serious tone as Jack, as opposed to Lester's boy in a man's body performance, probably pushed Melody to step her game up. However, I do think the pill and alcohol addiction story would have happened and Melody would have still pushed to act the hell out of it. Plus we head into the 90's at that point and acting on soaps was changing. So I think Melody would have had a similar trajectory with Nikki anyway. 

I also feel Lester's performance would have changed too. He may have started things with Jack being far more out of his depth and I feel like he would have played Jack as simply not wanting to deal with Nikki's issues. So he gives in to her over and over, he is still that boy prentending to be a man. However, I think whether intended or not, Jack still would have left that marriage far more grown up, especially if Bell still had Nikki lose their baby as a result of Victor.

I think it would have been amazing to watch if it had played out that way. I feel with Peter Bregman we skipped the part where Jack grew up, as he always played him more as an adult. 

 

Edited April 2, 20223 yr by will81

9 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

 

At what point did Nikki mature somewhat?

 

Under Bell's pen, she seemed to take a few steps forward, and then a few steps back.  We watched her stumble stupidly through the "Hot Hips" porno tape escapade, the marriage to gangster Tony DiSalvo, the Rick Daros fiasco, and then she finally married Victor and seemed to gain a small modicum of credibility as a smart young housewife.  Then she runs off half-cocked, looking for Cora Miller -- the LAST person Victor ever wanted to see again in his life -- because it never occurred to her that was a bad idea.  Another step backwards.  It ultimately worked out okay, though, because it united Victor with his mother, the two of them reached a painful understanding, and Nikki finally appeared to have walking-about sense after all.  But six months later, she's attempting to strip to raise money at the charity gala, and then she's shacked-up with Terry Lester's Jack in an apartment while she's still married to Victor, then she's "dying" and dragging a casket into the living room of the ranch, telling horror stories about the Wicked Witch to her young daughter --- there was just such an innate DUMBNESS about her, and it was hard to dislike her even when she was at her worst.    

I guess it was Peter Bergman and the alcoholic pill-popping that matured her the most.  (Even then, though, the crux of her problem was supposedly "back pain", but it never crossed her mind to take off those eight-inch tall, high-heeled stilettos to relieve her back pain instead of gulping vodka and popping pain pills, lol.)   

9 hours ago, Broderick said:

Even then, though, the crux of her problem was supposedly "back pain", but it never crossed her mind to take off those eight-inch tall, high-heeled stilettos to relieve her back pain instead of gulping vodka and popping pain pills, lol

Little known fact: Miguel's duties as Major D'omo of the Newman Ranch included stylist, hairdresser, and drug pusher...

So Nikki was the OG ho turned housewife?

IMO, Kay and Nikki's relationship worked, because of the little-girl naivete that made Nikki outwardly different from Jill, who could seem almost TOO greedy and grasping at times.

Of course, if *I* had been in Bill Bell's shoes, I might've been tempted to write a story where Kay "grooms" Nikki into someone who could seduce John Abbott away from Jill.   

2 hours ago, Khan said:

IMO, Kay and Nikki's relationship worked, because of the little-girl naivete that made Nikki outwardly different from Jill, who could seem almost TOO greedy and grasping at times.

 

Yeah, Nikki and Jill were distinctly different from each other, though they were both "wrong-side-of-the-tracks" types who rose above their circumstances.  

Jill was constantly plotting with more of a concrete game plan -- get herself a rich husband & a plush life where she isn't required to be a manicurist or a pedicurist.  

Nikki was in more of a celebrity-seeking dream world, where she wanted public acclamation and applause, whether it came from modeling lingerie, being the star attraction in a seedy strip club, or appearing in perfume ads.  She wanted to be a celebrity.   That was her little goal.  

Edited April 3, 20223 yr by Broderick

23 minutes ago, Broderick said:

Yeah, Nikki and Jill were distinctly different from each other, though they were both "wrong-side-of-the-tracks" types who rose above their circumstances.  

Jill was constantly plotting with more of a concrete game plan -- get herself a rich husband & a plush life where she isn't required to be a manicurist or a pedicurist.  

Nikki was in more of a celebrity-seeking dream world, where she wanted public acclamation and applause, whether it came from modeling lingerie, being the star attraction in a seedy strip club, or appearing in perfume ads.  She wanted to be a celebrity.   That was her little goal.  

Jill was definitely more tenacious in her pursuits and she was prepared to work for it.

I think it would have been better had Jill been at Jabot after her first marriage to John. It would have been more realistic than a young wife sitting around at home.That would have provided more conflict with Jack and Ashley at work, especially if Jill's ideas did have merit and she felt she was being stymied.

That way she would have been more entitled to a share of Jabot.

Nikki, on the other hand, showed no interested in any intellectually stimulating work- look pretty in front of a camera - OK.

She became a society wife-always dressed to the nines at home. I think Nikki was a little underwritten in those years as to what she actually did with her time. But the idea of her working is something I don't believe Nikki would adjust to. The idea might appeal but I don't know how focussed she might be.

If this was actively addressed, it would have been interesting. They could have explored that Nikki actually found ,after stumbling,that she was capable but I think as the years went on the writing was less specific towards the character.

Jumping into the conversation of Nikki and Jill, do you all think there ever could’ve been a way of writing the show back during MTS’s first year that Nikki and Jill could’ve become chums?? I know you all said they’re both way different, but I’ve always wondered what it would’ve been like if they were both at the Allegro one night, Jill down about her marriage to Stu and not knowing where she stands with Derek, and Nikki down about killing her father or they could’ve written something else she was bummed about, and then they bring the two together through some dialogue to form some kind of bond and they maybe have a short-lived friendship? I wonder how Brenda and Melody’s chemistry would’ve been and how the characters would’ve played it out with each other, especially during 1979. 

 

Maybe Bill Bell could’ve written that Jill helps Nikki where Greg is concerned and Jill coaches Nikki on how to win him over and get in his good graces. Then, to repay Jill, Nikki coaches Jill on how to win Derek over in more of a slutty, seductive way that Jill hasn’t considered yet and to try and beat Suzanne at her own game.

 

Sorry if this sounds stupid, I just wondered about it haha. 

Edited April 3, 20223 yr by ltm1997

Has Jill ever HAD close friends?  Or is she like Erica Kane, someone who doesn't know HOW to get along with other women without sizing them up to be competition?

55 minutes ago, Khan said:

Has Jill ever HAD close friends?  Or is she like Erica Kane, someone who doesn't know HOW to get along with other women without sizing them up to be competition?

She had Mari Jo Mason…until she turned out to be a psycho!

Jill had particularly bad luck when choosing friends because David and Sven also turned into psychopathic killers.  It is no wonder she's got trust issues.

Who was the handsome divorce attorney she befriended after her breakup with John?  I think she took him to the costume gala? - not Mitchel Sherman, he worked for Kay

Edited April 3, 20223 yr by j swift