Y&R: Old Articles

[Planet Soap]

thank you!!! ill see if the RR youtube channel has a decent amount of 2008 episodes posted to watch some of this. i like storylines where nikki gets to be independent of victor which happened a lot during the MAB era. it feels like she lost some of that independence in recent years. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by ironlion

[kalbir]

Hahaha, so true.

Shari Shattuck not passing the chemistry test w/ EB is maybe what lead to Bill Bell alluding to a potential Victor/Christine pairing. When you look past the obvious ick factor of LLB being Bill Bell's daughter and at the time she was half EB's age and look at where Victor and Christine were as characters on the show, it makes so much more sense.

Victor was at a point in his life where he was all alone. His marriage to Hope had ended and she returned to Kansas with baby Adam. Nikki had moved on with Brad. Ashley left town in the aftermath of Blade's death and discovering Rick's deception and when she returned she did not pass the chemistry test with Victor (if the chemistry tests w/ Victor and/or Brad were passed, we might have gotten a Victor/Nikki/Brad/Ashley quad).

Christine was also at a turning point in her life. She was in love with Paul but Paul kept pushing her away as he couldn't get past Christine being with Danny just before Paul and Christine were to get married. Meanwhile Danny was desperately trying to win Christine back. 

Victor and Christine were placed in each other's orbit in a professional capacity, first during Nick's trial and then Christine joined the legal team at Newman Enterprises. Slowly a friendship started to form. In their first social outing (dinner at the Colonnade Room the same night Nikki and Brad celebrated their engagement there), it's clear that Victor was drawn to Christine, not just because she is young and beautiful, but because she is also intelligent and kind-hearted.  Fast forward a few episodes to Victor's office where Christine realized her relationship with Paul is over and she took off her engagement ring and Victor comforted her with a hug (Nikki witnessed this and it lead to the Legal Aid confrontation).

On those two occasions, Victor could have easily made a move but he didn't. Victor kept himself in the friend zone, and I think that was due to Bill Bell knowing that the audience was aware of Christine's past as a survivor of both date rape and sexual harassment (even though it wasn't mentioned on screen, I'm sure Victor was aware of it too. I doubt he would've hired Christine at Newman Enterprises without having her background checked and since there were trials for the date rape and sexual harassment cases, those would've been discovered in a background check). I also think Victor knew Christine still loved Paul and wouldn't be over Paul that quickly and Christine knew that Victor still loved Nikki, so they weren't going to be each other's rebounds. In the primetime episode it was set up as though something was going to happen between Victor and Christine but as we know nothing did. 

On a totally shallow note, EB really glowed up in the spring of 1996

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. Do we have LLB to thank for that? 

Edited March 11, 2022 by kalbir

[DjPisces89]

Watching this makes me wish and hope that one day they will put old episodes of not just y&r but all soaps. 

 

Was this before or after Jeanne's facelift in 1984?

[Broderick]

Jill and her roommate (Eve Howard) seemed to be under the impression that "Traci & Tiffany" might be coming home for Christmas 1980.  Naturally I assumed they would be as well, but that didn't pan out.  Brett Halsey's John had spoken with Jill about "Traci & Tiffany" on several occasions.  In hindsight, thank heavens Tiffany's debut was delayed by 18 months or so.  By the time Tiffany's moment to appear had arrived, Bill Bell knew that Jaime Lyn Bauer was leaving, and it became obvious that "Tiffany" needed to be re-tooled into a more assertive, aggressive heroine who could fill the void Jaime's exit would create.  I've often wondered how Bell had initially envisioned Tiffany -- probably nothing like the character Eileen Davidson brought to the canvas in the spring of 1982. 

Jeanne Cooper's long absence wasn't explained at all on-screen (that I can remember).  She basically just came back from Felipe's Island, asked Victor to continue overseeing Chancellor Industries, dumped Derek, dumped Douglas, and *poof* vanished after one or two episodes.  No mention of a trip or anything.  (This was sometime in the early months of 1981.)  I don't recall seeing her again until way up in the summertime, when an episode opened with her standing in the living room, examining her wrinkles in the mirror, and deciding that she would engage the new escort service.   Then she took another strange hiatus a few months later, after the London Gala.  She and Cash booked a return trip to Genoa City from London, but she advised him that he would be returning alone, as she'd decided to travel to Zurich to meet with a plastic surgeon.  We didn't see her for several weeks, when she came breezing back in for the Smiley/gambling debt storyline with no follow-up about the Zurich surgeon.   Possibly these exits were inspired by real-life trips to rehab, but obviously the press wasn't anxious to report on that.  I believe they were just described as "vacations" -- "Jeanne Cooper has returned to her role as Kay Thurston following a long vacation".      

[Soaplovers]

I do recall the Jill/Kay feud was rested for a year or two..until Jill was serious with John and Kay dropped by to visit Jill.

Jill vs Kay when Adair was playing Jill had a different element because Adair had a sweet exterior so that Kay looked unhinged while Jill looked innocent.  It's probably why the feud didn't become revived until Dickson came back in mid 1983 as Jill.

There's a channel on YT uploading episodes of Y & R...and I was surprised at some of the character interactions.

I knew Traci and Lauren fought over Danny in 1983/4...but I was surprised Traci and Danny still interacted up to 1986..with Traci being almost a big sister to Cricket.

When did Traci and Danny stop interacting with one another?  By the early 90s, you wouldn't have known the two had previously been married.

And I was watching Brenda Dickson's last episodes in summer 1987..and saw Lauren/Danny as one another's dates..with Nina playing on Phillip's insecurities when it came to Cricket and Danny.

I'm curious as to when Lauren and Danny stopped interacting..since by the early 90s you wouldn't know the two were friends.

And to this day Paul/Lauren are a couple that I wish had reunited..though I loved how they were still friends and would celebrate their anniversary long after the two divorced.  And I liked that when Paul faked his death in 1989..he told Lauren he was still alive.

[Paul Raven]

I get that , but at the time had Lauren thought Paul was dead, it would have been a great motivation for her to marry Scott (to me, that never came across as a great love match) Then when Paul is discovered to be alive it sets up a natural conflict b/w Scott and Lauren as he wonders whether she married him for the right reasons or as just a way to deal with Paul's death.

[Soaplovers]

I always figured he went to Lauren as a rebound after finding out Cricket was his half sister.  He always held both Lauren and Sheila to high standards..due to his repressed feelings for Cricket.

In fact, I viewed Scott as the start of declawing Lauren.

[kalbir]

@SoaploversI think Tracey Bregman told Bill Bell in early 1989 she was planning to become pregnant so Bill Bell created the Lauren/Scott pairing to accommodate a future pregnancy. Also notice how TB's hair color changed from platinum blonde in 1988 to her natural color by the end of 1989.

[will81]

Traci and Danny were divorced in 1985 and by the end of that year Bell had begun to bring Traci and Brad together. In early 86 Danny starts to wonder if maybe he made a mistake letting go of Traci, but Brad asks him to step back and he does. Just as Traci and Brad marry, Cricket returns to town and for the most part this is the end of Traci and Danny. I think they perform together that year at a concert, but by 1987 neither has anything to do with each other. It is strange, Cricket was Traci's step-sister for a time, yet Traci had nothing to do with Danny and Cricket's lives.

In 1987 due to the Phillip/Cricket/Danny triangle, which saw Cricket and Phillip engaged, and at the same time Lauren being let loose from Paul, I guess Bell decided to briefly have Lauren and Danny back in each others orbits, they hadn't really interacted much in years at that point. It was brief as Lauren moved on to Brad almost immediately. I think when Brenda Dickson was playing Jill, Bell had intended a Jill/Brad/Lauren triangle, but when Jess took over, it was clear she and Don had no chemistry and it seemed to be dropped. Lauren and Danny were pretty well done once Lauren went after Brad. 

 

[FrenchBug82]

This might be an unpopular opinion since the Sheila/Lauren story has become mythical but I used to have a HUGE issue with the fact the battle was about Scott because I never bought much chemistry between Lauren and Scott and it felt to me like their couple was a plot device rather than a real pairing. 
I didn't mind him being a wet blanket because in the titanic battle around him, it was better than he not be as big-character as the two women were, and he was obviously handsome enough that I could buy Sheila being enamored. But the Lauren/Scott part of the equation always felt too weak for me to be that invested... which is probably why the story became stronger once Sheila's obsession became *Lauren* rather than Scott himself, which is counterintuitive because usually villains work better for me when they have a clear goal.

[will81]

I'd agree, if Lauren hadn't gotten pregnant. Honestly that was her lynch pin to Scott, because prior to Sheila drugging Scott, Lauren and Scott were on thin ice. I don't think even Bell saw them as any real end game. The big fight was over Lauren's baby not so much Scott. It was a Single White Female sort of situation. Once Sheila fled, Lauren wasn't so quick to reconcile with Scott and had an affair with Brad during their second marriage (basically forced upon her by Scott)

I think Sheila's obssession was always to have a stable home life with a husband and child and all the things she felt she never had. She wanted a man to love her, Scott represented this, honestly it could have been any man, and that's what Scott became, the every man. Sheila's paranoia with Lauren was only because she was constantly on edge that Lauren would find out she had switched the babies and her whole life would come crashing down. Her focus on Lauren post farmhouse fire was simply because Lauren knew Eric Forrester - Lauren was a means to an end, but at that point never Sheila's obssession. She was just constantly in her way.

I don't think Bell ever really made Sheila and Lauren about Scott. It was bigger than him and I always felt it was about the two women, he was just a piece in the puzzle. Scott was the initial catalyst, but Bell always made it about deeper emotions and motivations than simply a man. 

[Paul Raven]

Getting back to 1980, looking back you could see the problems and opportunities Bill faced with the expansion.

Y&R always had a very tight knit format linked to the Brooks and Fosters so immediately adding new faces was going to change the feel of the show.

And by 79,some of the stories were losing steam.

Lance/Lorie/Leslie/Lucas/Vanessa had been diluted by introducing the Jonas/Pris element.

Same with Jill marrying Stuart and moving away from Derek/Kay.

I don't think either of those stories were well received. Jill cheating her mother out of happiness seemed out of character and did anyone find Jonas interesting?

I guess what I am saying is that the front burner stories were not super strong going in to 60 min format.

Then you had John McCook and Brenda leaving.

What did you guys think of the state of Y&R at that time and the choices Bill made?

[Bright Eyes]

With the Brenda Dickson/Jill recast merry go round, I wonder if Bill Bell ever considered writing Jill out for a bit. In fact, I think it's strange that he didn't rest her for a year or two.

[will81]

Actually the show was consistantly hitting #1 or #2 (and sometimes #3) right up to Jan/Feb 1980. I think Bell was chugging along just fine right up to the point at which the show hit an hour. AMC took advantage of this with their masquerade ball around the same week and I think stole a big chunk of viewers that saw that show stabilise and Y&R fall to 5th.

I do think Brenda and John's departures along with David's minimised appearance and JLB's pregnany (which restricted what Bell could do with Lorie) really did strike a big blow to the show. It is hard to introduce a set of new characters at the same time that your familiar faces are either gone or unable to lead the show. Plus Leslie walking around with no clue who she was didn't help. 

Vanessa was done at this point. her entire motivation was destroying Lorie/Lance and she did that. Goal accomplished. With McCook's departure the 4 L's were done. I don't blame Bell for how Lance left as it seems John made a last minute decision to leave the show, but it is silly that after all those years Vanessa managed to trick Lorie into getting a divorce behind Lance's back and he just sort of accepted it and left town and neither fought for their marriage of 3 years. Lorie was initially crying on Michael's shoulder, that seemed to go nowhere. 

From what I can tell the amnesia story was a bit of a bust, along with the Santa Leandro story, just as Leslie wanted to remember her past and was a threat to Lorie, JLB went on maternity leave and the audience got a new Lorie in Wesley Ann Pfenning which led to Lorie going out of town on a book tour for several weeks and suddenly the 4 L's were somewhat disbanded and replaced by Lucas/Leslie/Jonas/Casey. The problem here was Lucas and Leslie were never in love, so what was at stake here? Why would I watch those four when there was little reason for Leslie and Lucas to even bother reconciling a marriage the was a big fake and now that Leslie had no memory of it anyway and Pris was in love with Jonas, what was the point? For Brooks? He was off in New York with Lorie and when she returned she pointed out that neither Lucas nor Leslie even called once to ask about him, hence her motivation to pursue custody. For absolutely no reason Lucas suddenly wanted to save his marriage which gave some thin motivation for Lorie to go after Lucas to help her case with getting custody of Brooks and allowing a rather weak triangle with Leslie who didn't care for Lucas and Lorie who cared more for Brooks. None of it worked. Jonas gave up Leslie pretty quick and Casey let go of Lucas just as easily. If I was watching I would have had no investment in any of it.

As for Jill/Derek/Kay that ended with Brenda's departure. Bell seemed more motivated to give Jill something new, hence the Abbott's and Jabot. The problem with Derek was Bell shifted his motivations which were not in line with his character. Derek was never interested in Kay's money - I guess it somewhat makes sense that he got a taste of the good life and wanted more, but I still don't buy it. Without Jill it just didn't work. Derek loved women and his life as a hairdresser and Kay was still besotted with him, so what was the story here? He seemed more likely to open his salon and simply take up with his clients behind Kay's back, I don't buy his desire to suddenly be a big shot at Chancellor. Nor do I buy Kay's fear of him before the trip on the cruise, plus once she was seeing Douglas why would she keep Derek around? Because he got her hooked on the sauce again? Pretty thin.

The other big story was the cult story. Not sure how I feel about that one. I guess @Broderick could say if it worked. Truth is the ratings tanked in Aug 1980 when this was a main story. The show was 7th amongst soaps but 12th overall in daytime. It feels like Bell put a quick end to the story, moved everyone on quickly and there were few ramifications besides Peggy and Steve. Even that resolved itself rather quickly. Stu hated Steve for putting his daughter in danger, Peggy told him to butt out. Then suddenly Peggy had doubts about Steve and was turning to Jack. 

April/Paul - I'd say due to cast changes and Lynn Topping and David being mostly off screen hurt this one. It stopped and started and repeated itself once Cindy Eilbacher came on. Some mix up with Dorothy and Wayne thinking Steven was the father and then Greg and April wanting to be together and Nikki geting in their way and Greg hating Paul. None of it seems too exciting to me. Even Nikki scheming didn't last long and she gave up and moved on. 

Victor/Julia/Brock/Michael - This stopped started too. Bell seemed to be moving Lorie and Victor together, but when JLB's pregnancy started to show and she was having issues he stopped this pairing and Lorie refused to get involved with Victor as he was married. Julia (like every woman in GC) only wanted a friendship with Brock. He leaves and then Julia and Michael meet through their work at Jabot. This story was another stop/starter. Eve added some spice I guess and the eventual Michael in the dungeon story, which was more 1981. 

John/Jill/Jack - I said above Jabot seemed to be intergrated well, but this triangle seemingly went nowhere. Very little seemed to occur until its resolution in early 81. Jack wanted Jill she wanted John, John was too afraid to make a move. He finally does just as Jill sleeps with Jack, John leaves town heartbroken. The end. 

Liz/Stu/Eve - This was a rather minor story that didn't go anywhere. Stu would never cheat on Liz and Eve was more involved in the Victor story so I can't imagine it was all that interesting either. 

The Williams - Paul had story, Patty didn't and was gone for six months between recasts. Mary had an interesting late in life pregnancy and miscarriage. All rather minor stories for the family as a whole. 

Again this all from putting together synopsis, so those who watched may have had a different experience or may remember things not in synopsis that made these stories better than they read. 

[Paul Raven]

Thanks for that comprehensive rundown.

My statement on 79 was about the story direction rather than the ratings. There was nothing going on that would cause a sudden drop but I felt things were petering out and the expansion didn't help.

Had the ongoing stories had exciting new twists and builup, the new characters could be introduced in the midst of it all but that wasn't the case.

I think it would have been better for Lance to have been presumed dead at this point and the shock of the news brings Leslie's memory back. However, that coupled with her grief would leave her unable to care for Brooks. She asks Lucas for a divorce and rejects Jonas

As Lucas was Brook's legal father, he would take custody and Lorie would use this to get Lance's precious son to herself by marrying Lucas., who always loved Lorie.

I would have kept Liz pining for Stu and have Vanessa become involved with him-half to spite Lorie but also because she is discovering she can have feelings for a man (other than her son!) Lorie of course would be livid.

When Stu realizes that Vanessa is too possessive he rejects her, which triggers her plan to frame Lorie for her death.

Of course, along the way Les would recover and want her son back.

Withdrawing Jill from the story weakened it. Would have been better to have the new Jill involved with familiar characters. Agree that Derek's motivation was murky. the show had never really done business stories so it was jarring that Chancellor was suddenly in the  limelight. Perhaps Bill could have come up with something with Suzanne. Bringing in Derek's son Jamie might have led to something. 

 

The cult was one of those Summer teen stories that had no long term ramifications. If it had been the springboard to solidifying steve and Peggy... david winn was another of those bland leading men and Pam Peters just never seemed to click.

 

Agree. Seemed much ado about nothing. Paul never cared for April who always came across as a wet blanket.

Team Nikki for wanting more out of life.

Using Brock as a romantic lead was jarring to the audience as Brock had always been the supporting/supportive character. Still not sure why Beau bailed. If contracts were renewed in Jan how come he was able to leave so soon. If he only agreed to say on 6 months, why give him his first big story?

 

The problem with Jabot was that at first, it was isolated. Only those 3 characters were involved. Maybe Chris could have got a job there?

 

Having Stu and Liz marry was a mistake in my book as it lead nowhere. They would have to be the happy tentpole couple, which isn't a bad thing but they never seemed to get the airtime in dramas surrounding their kids.

 

I recall John Kelly Genovese saying that the intro of the Williams was too full on.

Paul goes home one day and suddenly there's a dad who is a policeman, mom who's pregannt, brother who is a reporter, a teen sister and talk of another brother.He felt it was too much too soon and they should have come on more gradually.