1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Years ago, I floated the theory that Marland’s work illustrated a lot of mortality, particularly in the last two to three years of his work and heard crickets.

It was obvious that he was preoccupied with mortality. A writer’s life is sedentary, often requires late nights, requires some solitude, not exactly the healthiest lifestyle. Combine this aspect with the fact that Marland was a chain smoker— it is likely that he had developed some underlying health issues, even if nobody else knew. If you compare a fifty year old man back then with a fifty year old man today…most are not even in the same age group physically, probably not psychologically or psychically either.

Writers today are also very different from writers back then. I remember while in grad school, one of my screenwriting instructors (a man who had written an award winning screenplay and has since unfortunately died after a fatal heart attack) lamented that the lifestyle of writers had changed. Observing that some of us had apparently healthy lifestyles (some of us worked out, a few were vegetarians or abstained from red meat, didn’t smoke) quipped “What has happened today…where’s the drinking…the smoking?!”

Marland probably knew something was wrong with his health. He was an intuitive man, you can’t have such sharp insight into human personality, especially the neuroses and pathological side of human behavior, while lacking intuition. Even if he didn’t know that the end was emerging soon, at the pace he was working, the aspect of him working himself into an early grave more than likely entered his thoughts. It doesn’t take a huge leap for one’s preoccupations to trickle, even bleed into one’s creative work. Like I said before, what someone considered to be  the age of decline was a lot earlier back then.

That's a fascinating insight. Reminds me of (and of course these are younger people and a different situation entirely) Tina Fey, who joined SNL as a writer in 1997 and rose to headwriter before leaving in 2006, giving interviews upbraiding newer writers when she would come back to host in the late '10s. She was critical because they no longer followed the format of staying at the offices all week, day and night, instead going home at night and returning the next day. Never mind that this was instituted partially  because one of the longtime writers had started having anxiety attacks and was told by doctors that his lifestyle and diet at the show was going to kill him...

Wow - I'm surprised at all the criticisms of Marland. Other than the misfire of the Caroline Crawford murder mystery, I thought the show was very good in 91/92. The Aaron storyline, Holden's amnesia, Angel's crisis, Connor's takeover of Walsh, Margo's rape, Scott's arrival, Tonio's end, Ellie and Kirk's marriage, the healing of Kim and Bob's marriage, Jessica and Duncan's relationship all were riveting.  While many of the stories were indeed sad and dramatic -- that's what soap operas are!  And the ratings for this period seem to validate that Marland knew what he was doing -- ATWT was in the top 4 shows for both 91 and 92.  1993 began very promisingly with the introduction of the Grimaldis, Royce and Neal's secret relationship to Lucinda, and Martha Byrne's return. I did not have the sense that Marland was getting tired of the show or that he was looking for an exit.  And with the strong ratings, I don't think that P&G was thinking of replacing him.  Unfortunately,  Marland's death derailed the show.  Which brings me to my final point: the show never recovered from his death.  Marland's 9 years were ATWT's high water mark. I'm sad that we never got to see what he may have come up with for 1993 and beyond.

12 minutes ago, MarlandFan said:

Wow - I'm surprised at all the criticisms of Marland. Other than the misfire of the Caroline Crawford murder mystery, I thought the show was very good in 91/92. The Aaron storyline, Holden's amnesia, Angel's crisis, Connor's takeover of Walsh, Margo's rape, Scott's arrival, Tonio's end, Ellie and Kirk's marriage, the healing of Kim and Bob's marriage, Jessica and Duncan's relationship all were riveting.  While many of the stories were indeed sad and dramatic -- that's what soap operas are!  And the ratings for this period seem to validate that Marland knew what he was doing -- ATWT was in the top 4 shows for both 91 and 92.  1993 began very promisingly with the introduction of the Grimaldis, Royce and Neal's secret relationship to Lucinda, and Martha Byrne's return. I did not have the sense that Marland was getting tired of the show or that he was looking for an exit.  And with the strong ratings, I don't think that P&G was thinking of replacing him.  Unfortunately,  Marland's death derailed the show.  Which brings me to my final point: the show never recovered from his death.  Marland's 9 years were ATWT's high water mark. I'm sad that we never got to see what he may have come up with for 1993 and beyond.

When I talk about him wanting out it isn't a criticism of him as much as various articles and pieces I've read here over the years as he did, IIRC, have another soap in the works he had been trying to sell (wasn't it based in Detroit or centered on a blue-collar family or something).

 

 

@victoria foxton @DramatistDreamer @soapfan770 @Mitch64 @Vee @Soapsuds @Paul Raven

 

I believe some or all of this may have been on Youtube before, but I don't know if it has ever been fully complete, or in such pristine quality.

Nice to see some of Chris and Nancy, Chris and Tom, and Nancy still blurring the line between her harder earlier self and softer later self. Lovely scene with Nancy and Ellen too, and Betsy and Kim. You get a lot of heart that early '80s ATWT can lack.

I always forget Scott Defrietas had started by this point. 

Edited June 17, 20223 yr by DRW50

Personally, I think Marland was a great writer. Was he perfect? No one is perfect, but he wrote some storylines that still have relevance today. He wrote real conversations between characters in situations that had relatable aspects even when those situations stretched into the bizarre, and when the actors were truly well cast, the dialogue could really ring true and truly profound. I am just going to go on ahead and say this: I think that sexuality had an impact on how Marland’s work was promoted (or rather, not promoted) by the network and the production company P&G, similar to the way that Irna Phillips found her ambitions thwarted by P&G because of her gender.

In terms of criticism, what soap writer didn’t have misfires? In regards to those misfires, I find myself extending grace because one, writing is not easy, especially for writers like Marland who tended to juggle multiple stories in various stages of progression over long story arcs that spanned a lengthy period of time and two, we don’t know exactly how many stories suffered from interference from either the executives at P&G and/or the executives at the “Tiffany Network” both of which had to have been among the two most conservative entities that ever produced entertainment television. I try to keep these factors in mind whenever I analyze any master soap writer. Otherwise, it’s just being b*tchy for no reason, lol.

 I feel like I have said this before, on some level.

1 minute ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Personally, I think Marland was a great writer. Was he perfect? No one is perfect, but he wrote some storylines that still have relevance today. He wrote real conversations between characters in situations that had relatable aspects even when those situations stretched into the bizarre, and when the actors were truly well cast, the dialogue could really ring true and truly profound. I am just going to go on ahead and say this: I think that sexuality had an impact on how Marland’s work was promoted (or rather, not promoted) by the network and the production company P&G, similar to the way that Irna Phillips found her ambitions thwarted by P&G because of her gender.

Yes. Any criticisms I have of Marland (and I am pretty happy with his  ATWT run - most of mine would extend toward his GL work, if I had any) are with awareness that he was an incredibly talented writer whose work generally holds up extremely well. I know that these threads can  easily come off as people being bitchy and catty and cliquey, but I don't believe that is the case here. 

By many  accounts Marland was not a shrinking violet...I think he'd be fine with the discussions. 

@DRW50Thanks Carl. I don't remember seeing this episode. It's always nice to see Susan Bedsow-Horgan run.

3 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Yes. Any criticisms I have of Marland (and I am pretty happy with his  ATWT run - most of mine would extend toward his GL work, if I had any) are with awareness that he was an incredibly talented writer whose work generally holds up extremely well. I know that these threads can  easily come off as people being bitchy and catty and cliquey, but I don't believe that is the case here. 

By many  accounts Marland was not a shrinking violet...I think he'd be fine with the discussions. 

Having participated in numerous workshops where my work and everybody else’s work can be picked apart at any time during the process, you have to be able to handle critiques and discussion of your work and as long as it’s coming from a genuine place, I don’t see a problem with it. 

8 minutes ago, victoria foxton said:

Thanks Carl. I don't remember seeing this episode. It's always nice to see Susan Bedsow-Horgan run.

Yes as I've been watching through it I don't  recognize most of it either. I think those early scenes with Betsy and Steve at their cabin fooled me, as they had the same scenes about 500 times. I would have remembered the delightful scene where Ellen asks if Nancy could believe  Lisa reunited them with their grandson, and  Nancy deadpans that she absolutely can believe it. Feels like a line @Mitch64 would write  here...

This old nanny of Stewart's (I'm guessing she  is a baddie  at heart) and her cod English accent is amusing. 

The return of Nancy and Chris truly does add so much warmth to the canvas. So much of this episode is devoid of plot and is just people chilling at the Hughes home and it is wonderful. Sad that it took so long for this to happen but I'm really glad the usual spiteful figures at P&G or at the show let it happen. 

Edited June 17, 20223 yr by DRW50

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

Yes. Any criticisms I have of Marland (and I am pretty happy with his  ATWT run - most of mine would extend toward his GL work, if I had any) are with awareness that he was an incredibly talented writer whose work generally holds up extremely well. I know that these threads can  easily come off as people being bitchy and catty and cliquey, but I don't believe that is the case here. 

By many  accounts Marland was not a shrinking violet...I think he'd be fine with the discussions. 

It was also said that he was in talks to write for Jane Elliot again.

1 hour ago, MarlandFan said:

Wow - I'm surprised at all the criticisms of Marland. Other than the misfire of the Caroline Crawford murder mystery, I thought the show was very good in 91/92. The Aaron storyline, Holden's amnesia, Angel's crisis, Connor's takeover of Walsh, Margo's rape, Scott's arrival, Tonio's end, Ellie and Kirk's marriage, the healing of Kim and Bob's marriage, Jessica and Duncan's relationship all were riveting.  While many of the stories were indeed sad and dramatic -- that's what soap operas are!  And the ratings for this period seem to validate that Marland knew what he was doing -- ATWT was in the top 4 shows for both 91 and 92.  1993 began very promisingly with the introduction of the Grimaldis, Royce and Neal's secret relationship to Lucinda, and Martha Byrne's return. I did not have the sense that Marland was getting tired of the show or that he was looking for an exit.  And with the strong ratings, I don't think that P&G was thinking of replacing him.  Unfortunately,  Marland's death derailed the show.  Which brings me to my final point: the show never recovered from his death.  Marland's 9 years were ATWT's high water mark. I'm sad that we never got to see what he may have come up with for 1993 and beyond.

Agreed!

3 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Years ago, I floated the theory that Marland’s work illustrated a lot of mortality, particularly in the last two to three years of his work and heard crickets.

It was obvious that he was preoccupied with mortality. A writer’s life is sedentary, often requires late nights, requires some solitude, not exactly the healthiest lifestyle. Combine this aspect with the fact that Marland was a chain smoker— it is likely that he had developed some underlying health issues, even if nobody else knew. If you compare a fifty year old man back then with a fifty year old man today…most are not even in the same age group physically, probably not psychologically or psychically either.

Writers today are also very different from writers back then. I remember while in grad school, one of my screenwriting instructors (a man who had written an award winning screenplay and has since unfortunately died after a fatal heart attack) lamented that the lifestyle of writers had changed. Observing that some of us had apparently healthy lifestyles (some of us worked out, a few were vegetarians or abstained from red meat, didn’t smoke) quipped “What has happened today…where’s the drinking…the smoking?!”

Marland probably knew something was wrong with his health. He was an intuitive man, you can’t have such sharp insight into human personality, especially the neuroses and pathological side of human behavior, while lacking intuition. Even if he didn’t know that the end was emerging soon, at the pace he was working, the aspect of him working himself into an early grave more than likely entered his thoughts. It doesn’t take a huge leap for one’s preoccupations to trickle, even bleed into one’s creative work. Like I said before, what someone considered to be  the age of decline was a lot earlier back then.

 

Director Bruce Barry recently said how much harder writers and directors worked in the heyday of soaps. Writers and directors cared more about their craft back in the day. They worked long hours to produce the best soap possible.

All that tension probably didn't help Marland either. He wanted ever script perfect.

 

 

56 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Yes as I've been watching through it I don't  recognize most of it either. I think those early scenes with Betsy and Steve at their cabin fooled me, as they had the same scenes about 500 times. I would have remembered the delightful scene where Ellen asks if Nancy could believe  Lisa reunited them with their grandson, and  Nancy deadpans that she absolutely can believe it. Feels like a line @Mitch64 would write  here...

This old nanny of Stewart's (I'm guessing she  is a baddie  at heart) and her cod English accent is amusing. 

The return of Nancy and Chris truly does add so much warmth to the canvas. So much of this episode is devoid of plot and is just people chilling at the Hughes home and it is wonderful. Sad that it took so long for this to happen but I'm really glad the usual spiteful figures at P&G or at the show let it happen. 

It's a nice treat to see Nancy and Chris. Also loved the warm family feeling. You would never see scenes of people chilling out at the Hughes. During Sheffer and Jean Passanante. I loved the song playing when Heather and Tucker broke up. Andy calling Kim toots was cute.

Edited June 17, 20223 yr by victoria foxton

41 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Yes. Any criticisms I have of Marland (and I am pretty happy with his  ATWT run - most of mine would extend toward his GL work, if I had any) are with awareness that he was an incredibly talented writer whose work generally holds up extremely well. I know that these threads can  easily come off as people being bitchy and catty and cliquey, but I don't believe that is the case here. 

By many  accounts Marland was not a shrinking violet...I think he'd be fine with the discussions. 

A man that can truly entertain me not only once but twice with his writing has to be good. 

I didn't need a guy shirtless or a gay couple for some good soap drama/writing. Marland had me hooked with his storytelling.

50 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

@victoria foxton @DramatistDreamer @soapfan770 @Mitch64 @Vee @Soapsuds @Paul Raven

 

I believe some or all of this may have been on Youtube before, but I don't know if it has ever been fully complete, or in such pristine quality.

Nice to see some of Chris and Nancy, Chris and Tom, and Nancy still blurring the line between her harder earlier self and softer later self. Lovely scene with Nancy and Ellen too, and Betsy and Kim. You get a lot of heart that early '80s ATWT can lack.

I always forget Scott Defrietas had started by this point. 

Thank you for posting it!👍

From WLS: Friday, September 18, 2009
Coming Soon:
Irna Phillips' Unpublished Autobiography
Doug Moe has published a revealed article in the Wisconsin State Journal about the GUIDING LIGHT finale which includes an interview with Irna Phillips' son, Tom, and the revelation that her unpublished autobiography is in the works.
One of the best stories Tom Phillips remembers about his mother concerned her answer to the question of why she never got married. Irna Phillips adopted Tom in 1941 and his sister a year later.
"Why the hell should I get married?" Irna said. "If I want to get in a fight, I will call those buffoons in Cincinnati."
The buffoons in question were the sponsors for the radio and television soap operas she created and wrote.
GUIDING LIGHT going dark today has sparked renewed interest in Phillips, and as it happens, an abundance of her papers are stored at the Wisconsin Historical Society in Madison. There are scripts from GUIDING LIGHT and other shows she wrote, as well as correspondence with colleagues, listeners, viewers and advertisers.
Not in Madison yet, but coming soon, is Phillips' unpublished autobiography. Tom discovered it earlier this year in a box after his sister died in Los Angeles. He's read it, and after his wife and kids read it, he plans to send it here. Irna Phillips attended graduate school in speech at UW-Madison in the 1920s, as did Tom - in American history - in the 1960s.
According to Tom, the autobiography reveals his mother's thought process when creating GUIDING LIGHT more than seven decades ago.
Earlier she had created the first soap, PAINTED DREAMS, a feel-good drama about an Irish-American mom imparting homespun wisdom to her daughter.
In her autobiography, Phillips wrote, "I cannot pinpoint when the transition occurred, but somehow along the way I had made up my mind that any writing I did in the future would be based on reality and not fantasy."

What is the latest date anyone has seen news of this manuscript?