As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[NothinButAttitude]

I never understood why they got rid of Andy as he had the most ties and most potential out of most characters during that time. IMO, he should've been the leading man. Not Jack. Not Holden. 

 

From watching clips around Caleb's arrival and early years on the show, I always got that Caleb was the ladies' man, who made mistakes (like you stated). I guess once he became a cop they had to declaw him. Thinking about it, did you ever think that Jack/Carly were knockoffs of Julie/Caleb? Caleb/Jack being a cop and Snyder man. Julie/Carly being the town screw ups. I always pondered about that...

 

Do you think that Seth could've been brought back in later years? When Wally Kurth was brought on, I was hoping they'd make him Seth or Caleb but instead they made him weird ass Sam and just totally wasted him. I felt Stuart Damon would've been a Don Hughes recast but they wasted him too. What are your thoughts on that. 

[DRW50]

I don't think they were Julie/Caleb knockoffs, as I doubt those running the show knew much about Caleb or Julie. 

 

I do think Seth could have returned, sure, although I would have preferred no recast. A Don recast could have worked, especially if they brought back Teddy and his other child with Mary. He could have worked with Tom and there could have been tension over cases. 

 

He did change once he became a cop, but the biggest change was MDM's death. Up to the time he passed away Caleb was still a bit hotheaded, still got jealous. One of the early 1993 episodes he was in had him jealous of Julie at a modeling shoot.

[NothinButAttitude]

Oh OK. 

 

Do you think Stuart Damon and Wally Kurth would've worked as those recasts?

[DRW50]

Sure. I think Jed Allan could have been an OK Don too, although I'm not sure if he was still acting by that point. 

 

I'm still not sure how Wally Kurth ended up being cast as a disturbed man with a puppet. 

[NothinButAttitude]

I forgot about Jed Allan. I could see it with him too or he could've been a good Grant recast if James Douglas wasn't open to it. I was about to say Nicholas Coster but he already played Eduardo and John [Eldridge], so that'd be too farfetched. 

 

I don't get how Wally Kurth was wasted either. He had such good chemistry with Maura/Carly, and he had the rugged Snyder man look. He so could've been Seth. 

 

This show stayed casting great actors in dud newbie roles instead of recasting them as legacy characters. Much like how you said Jeffrey Meeks should've been Rick Ryan instead of Craig, which is so true.

 

 

[DramatistDreamer]

 

 

Oops, I forgot to state this, thanks for reminding me. I will edit and add the name.

 

 

Re: the question of whether Jack/Carly were Caleb/Julie knockoffs. I say mostly no but I'm just going to put it out there: I think had Julie stayed on, there would be no Carly. The fun in having the Julie character around is that she would sorta be reformed (as another poster put it) but not entirely. Julie was always going to have slip ups, often times money related, as Carly often did. One character would've been redundant with both on the show. 

As for Caleb and Jack, the cop thing is just too similar, although their personalities...not so much. I will say this-- when Jack first came on the show, TPTB gave Jack a slightly shady side. Yes, most likely it was due to Jack's being an agent but they clearly tried out a much 'darker' Jack in the beginning, similar to the type of leanings of Caleb (Michael David Morrison). I don't no whether they were conscious of this but at some point, they clearly put a stop to it and decided to make Jack a stand-up "G Man".

 

Michael David Morrison had irrefutable, off the charts, chemistry with Susan Marie Snyder, which I just don't think carried over when Graham Winton took over the role. Unfortunately soaps were too much into the Super Couple phenomenon (which helped, then hurt soaps) and probably saw the minimal chemistry between Snyder and Winton and eventually decided to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Instead of saving Julie, decided to toss her.

 

By the way, I have a question: Speaking of Carly, does anyone think that Linc Lafferty's wife (the blonde) may have been an early prototype for Carly? Not exactly the same (Linc's wife was a lot more ruthless) but scheming and driven. By the time Carly was introduced, the character type was a lot more nuanced and some of those rough edges had been sharpened considerably.  ETA. I meant that the rough edges had been refined considerably and the Carly character was sharper.

 

You've a point @P.J. , I think that Lisa was probably the prototype for a lot of young, restless 'bad girls' about Oakdale, Carly, Julie (down to the redhair) are two examples.  Kind of a shame that while so many know who Erica Kane is, so few seem to know about Lisa Miller who came before. To me, it just speaks to how 'under the radar' ATWT was in terms of promotion and press. Lisa never got into the culture the way an Erica Kane did, I guess sometimes timing is everything.

Edited October 24, 2016 by DramatistDreamer

[P.J.]

I think Lisa was an early prototype for Carly. I love Carly, but there wasn't a lot "original" about the character----young troublemaking female. I mean, Julie was a slightly sluttier version of Carly. Marcy (who I believe is who you're referring to) was a bit more cold-blooded. Molly slightly dumber, and on and on.

I don't think Julie was the end all be all of bad girls, but if SMS hadn't been fired, I'm not sure Maura would have been welcomed back with open arms in '97. Which to my world, would have been a travesty. lol

I would have loved Andy to stick around, but I think there was more than enough room in Oakdale for him and Jack. And better yet, both of them in town as "good" guys who just didn't necessarily like each other.

[DRW50]

I think Maura may have been prominent whether Julie was there or not, mostly because she was getting a lot of praise and notice by spring or summer '95 - around the time she dropped her cigarette in the Snyder pond. The thing with Carly in that period is she was dark and malevolent, with her vulnerability mostly just shown with Mike, and as the character became more popular (and Valente seemed to realize Yvonne Perry wasn't capable of being a sympathetic lead). Julie just never was like that. She was neurotic and a little sad, a girl who never grew up. I always felt like Carly's later years had stories that would have made more sense as old Julie castoffs (the fling with Holden, the romance with Simon). 

 

What made Carly different was that ATWT hadn't had a vixen like her in a very long time. She was sexual, she was dark, she was unapologetic trash, and she was volatile, which Marland women generally were not (his vixens were often extremely cold and asexual). Yet she was also oddly relateable, because she felt a lot of things no one in Oakdale ever allowed themselves to say (likely one of the reasons Janice was popular with a number of viewers the year before). 

[NothinButAttitude]

@DRW50 are rumors true though that Carly was one of Marland's final creations?

[DramatistDreamer]

Randomly came across this article written six years ago and I need to clarify one thing: did Eileen Fulton originate the "Granny Clause" or not? The article states that she is "credited with inventing the soap industry's 'granny clause' in the late 1960s..."

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/arts/television/07soap.html?_r=0

 

Since Carly came along in 1995, like 2 years after Marland's death that might be a bit of a stretch, no?  According to Wikipedia, the creation of Carly is attributed to Richard Culliton, although Wikipedia may not be the definitive source but I think it was @DRW50 who mentioned that Marland generally liked to write his leading ladies and vixen as cool and stoic, while Carly was fiery.

 

A Bit of Trivia: Does anyone know about a character by the name of Mark Galloway? Apparently Anthony Herrera play him in '74 and '75 before he ever played James Stenbeck. I'm intrigued.

Edited October 25, 2016 by DramatistDreamer

[DRW50]

I think he probably came up with the outline of Rosanna's past, which would have meant Carly. He also came up with the outline of the Kasnoffs, although I think they were darker (wasn't there supposed to be child abuse?). I don't know if he came up with any of the stronger details about Carly. 

[NothinButAttitude]

Oh OK. I do remember hearing about him outlining the Kasnoff clan. Wasn't he trying to pitch a new soap centered around them?

[DRW50]

I think so, yes - set in Philly? 

[Paul Raven]

I have read many times that Eileen asked for that clause when her son Tom was aged in the late 60's.She saw what happened to Pat Bruder when Dan was Sorased (bumped up a generation and made up and dressed much older).She did indeed originate that clause as far as I'm aware. I can't think of another character in that situation.

Maybe Susan Seaforth Hayes should have followed her lead.

Mark Galloway was involved with Susan Stewart I believe.

[soapfan770]

I actually enjoyed some of the Carly/Caleb/Julie story that played out before Caleb and Julie were shipped out I was fairly sad when they were. 1995 was a pretty solid year for ATWT and I enjoyed right up until early '96 when the plane crash happened after that it went to hell literally.