As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[Soapsuds]

I forgot to mention Jay is totally hot...lol

[soapfan770]

Thanks! Hal and Barbara were for me a couple that I grew to like. When I first started watching I always thought Hal and Barbara were kinda boring. I thought Barbara was more fun with Evan and the sort and it irked me they got back together even with Jennifer's birth. I liked the faux stalker story though even if it caused them to split up again. When I truly came to appreciate them was when they got back together in the late 90s and restored and renewed their relationship after going through all the hassles over the years after being separated. I have no words for the disgust and disappointment when Barbara left Hal for Craig.

I liked Hal and Emily as Hal seemed to having a taming effect on Emily but they were unfortunately backburned too quickly. Emily virtually had no story between the spa and Alison's discovery of her conception in 2002 and her affair with Chris in 2004. A shame because Emily really self-destructed after that, and yet much like Barbara and Carly, Hal still deeply cared about Emily.

It's a shame we lost Hendrickson the way we did he was a terrific actor so long underrated. In spite of his average appearance he was a great leading man and was a natural fit for Dolan, CZP, West, KMH, and even Marie Masters.

[edgeofnik]

Ben Hendrickson was such an underrated talent. This is what I loved about ATWT - for the most part they hired actor - not just hair models. He was salt of the earth and yet had some sort of ability to work with all these leading ladies and it wasn't weird == even MW and KMH == good stuff came out of each story. My favorite Hal moment was one day when he walked in the station, saw some donuts on a desk and started singing "All the cops in the donut shop say" from Walk Like an Egyptian! It was one of those perfect moments.

[Paul Raven]

The Lowells,one of ATWT's original families.

The law firm of Lowell, Barnes & Lowell was one of the most respected in Oakdale, IL. It was headed by Judge James T. Lowell. James and Alice Lowell had one child, James Lowell Jr.

James Jr. became a lawyer and married Claire English, who came from a very wealthy family. Claire had one brother, Steve. Claire and her father-in-law stayed very close for many years.

Jim and Claire had one child, a daughter named Ellen. Ellen was very upset when her father moved out of the house and had an affair with Edith Hughes. He did move back in, but the marriage was beyond repair. Shortly after Claire agreed to a divorce, Jim died in a tragic boating accident while fishing with his father. Soon thereafter Claire married Dr. Doug Cassen. After Doug died she married and divorced the much younger Michael Shea. Claire died a few years later when she was hit by a car.

Ellen's best friend was Penny Hughes They were classmates. Ellen had an affair with a married man named Dr. Tim Cole. She conceived his child, whom she named James after her father. She gave him up for adoption.

Ellen then became engaged to Burt Stanton. When he found out she had a child, he dumped her. Tim's wife left him. When Tim was diagnosed with leukemia, he married Ellen, who wanted to share his final days. Tim died within a few weeks.

Ellen took a job babysitting for David and Betty Stewart. She realized that their son, Dan, looked exactly like the baby she gave up for adoption. After getting his finger and footprints and having tests done, She found out that Dan was her son! She wasn't able to get custody of him after a fight. Betty Stewart died of pneumonia.

Another suitor, Jim Norman, couldn't handle the fact that Ellen had a child by someone else, and he left her. Ellen tried very hard to woo David and it took a long time. Ellen rekindled her romance with Don Hughes and he proposed. David Stewart finally proposed too and after many weeks Ellen decided to marry David instead of Donald. However, it was on the condition that she not tell Dan that she was his mother.

Edited May 10, 2011 by Paul Raven

[Paul Raven]

gg Edited May 10, 2011 by Paul Raven

[DRW50]

This is great. I didn't realize Ellen had had TWO failed relationships because of an out of wedlock child. While that's realistic, especially for those days, it's very sad. At least she had a happy ending.

[soapfan770]

It's funny that the Lowells simply were merged and absorbed in the Stewarts, as the Stewart clan itself got merged/absorbed into the Hughes pretty much. No men to carry on the name, but that does happen in real life all the time. I've heard Judge Lowell in 1979 was to what Ellen was in 1995. I'm surprised the show never brought back any Hughes family related to black sheep John Hughes. If I recall right from my readings/studies(lol) the actor who played John Hughes was the 2nd Mike Karr on Edge of Night but his name escapes me at the moments.

What was Lisa's mother Alma like? I've heard she was sort of like Ada was on AW.

Edited May 11, 2011 by soapfan770

[Paul Raven]

The Tom/Carol/Natalie/Jay story was major throughout the 70's.

Tom. the son of Bob and Lisa decided to become a lawyer. This pleased his parents. He was pursued by Barbara Ryan, but he wasn't that interested in her at the time. Barbara left town and Tom turned his attention towards Carol Deming. Carol never wavered in her want for Tom. He felt she was the one he wanted to spend the rest of his life with. Carol and Tom married and had a large, church wedding. Carol was a sweet person and the Hughes' family was very happy about the marriage.

Carol found out that she wasn't able to have children. She bonded with Frannie, Tom's much younger sister. Jennifer went back to work as a nurse after she had Frannie so Carol spent a lot of time with her. Tom kept occupied building his law career. He fell in love with his first client, Natalie Bannon Carol and Tom soon realized they married too young. They divorced quickly on amicable terms.

Jay Stallingshad come to town and he was quite the ladies man. He was originally interested in Lisa, but she only had eyes for Grant at that point in her life. He then focused on Carol, Lisa's then daughter-in-law. Carol wasn't the type to have an affair, but after her divorce from Tom she dated Jay. She wouldn't sleep with him outside of marriage, so Jay married her.

Although Jay was madly in love with Carol, he continued on with a torrid affair with Susan Srewart Natalie discovered Jay's affair with Susan. However, Jay had known Natalie previously. Jay knew that Natalie had an affair with a married man . Tom was in love though, and he didn't know all about Natalie's past. They married.

Jay knew Natalie quite well and as hard as they tried to stay away from each other, they just couldn't. They had a one-night stand. Tom felt he could forgive Natalie for what happened in her past. When he was about to reunite with her, he found out that Natalie had been unfaithful to him. At this point he felt infidelity was something that was unforgiveable. Natalie and Tom divorced. Tom was friends with Carol, and Jay begged him not to tell her about the one-night stand. Tom agreed. Natalie was determined to get Jay. Jay was in love with Carol and wanted to leave his one-night stand with Natalie at just that. When Carol went to visit her father in New York, Jay couldn't stop thinking about Natalie. They began a full-fledged affair.

Jay was tormented, but Natalie was not. She asked Lisa to tell Carol about the affair. Lisa did and Carol threw Jay out. They stayed married though, and had their ups and downs. Natalie became pregnant and Carol and Jay arranged to adopt the baby (it ended up being a girl, which they named Amy). Carol ended up being a widow when Jay died a few years later, Her next husband was Steve Andropoulos. Amy and Carol were important to Steve, but Carol feared for her safety because of some of the things Steve had been involved in. She divorced him and ended up marrying a minister, Norman Frazier.

[Mitch]

The Marie death story was written by DM and it was his first story, it unfolded into the Doug Cummings storyline. Marie and Kevin were introduced the spring summer before when Julianne Moore appeared as Frannie and she and Kevin were supposed to be starcrossed lovers. Marie was his ex girlfriend coming to town to get him and a more unlikely vixen you couldnt find.

[DRW50]

I do think Marie works as unbalanced and viperous trash - I don't know if that's what the show had in mind but the actress (who is that?) plays it that way. I loved her faceoff with Marcia.

So were Marie and Kevin planned pre-Marland and then he wrote them out?

I kind of like the idea of Kevin but I don't think Weber was the right actor.

I wonder why they didn't just give this story to Jay. He's about the same as Kevin in terms of characterization.

Thanks for the writeup on Jay/Carol/Natalie/Tom. I wish I could see the Susan/Jay stuff, I never knew about that!

[Khan]

Mady Kaplan, who portrayed Marie Kovac, is Frances Heflin's (Mona, AMC) real-life daughter.

Aside from Steven Weber's dreadful performance, which I think is typical of his level of skill (or lack thereof) as an actor, I've really no qualms with the Kevin/Frannie/Marie story. (Of course, since I believe Doug Marland never told a story that wasn't meticulously crafted beforehand, I'm biased, lol.) I look at it all as groundwork for the bigger tale, which was Frannie's relationship with Doug Cummings. Marland might have had other plans in mind for Kevin, at least, but I don't think so. Any more than I think Marie's primary function was to create a spoiler for Frannie and Kevin that brought up the reason why Frannie dumped him the first time and flunked out of Yale; and why she would hook up with Doug later on after giving Kevin a second chance and then regretting it. None of that would have made any sense with Jay Connors, who'd remained in Oakdale (and thus, on-screen) while Frannie was away at school.

Meanwhile, I'm glad there are clips available of Julianne Moore's work as Frannie aside from the one w/ Kevin that's always used in "Before They Were Famous"/"They Started on Soaps" specials. She was incredible even on ATWT, and it's shameful more people don't know that.

Yet, for some reason, I never minded as much when he wrote it, because I feel like he always rooted everything in character. And even though certain moments could have been OTT, at the same time, everything was played with dramatic import. There weren't any "nudge-nudge, wink-wink" touches that stink up today's OLTL, for example.

[DRW50]

Thanks. I thought that was Frances' daughter but I kept getting her mixed up with Marta Heflin, who would have been too old.

I guess I wondered if they could have just said this was a woman from Jay's past, since we knew little of him before 1984 (other than growing up as the rebellious son of the McColl housekeeper).

I don't mind camp when it helps to illuminate characters or isn't just done for the sake of camp. I thnk you can see that in some of his GL work, especially with Vanessa. It's not as heavy at ATWT, but Marie is very very campy. I'd love to hear Mady's thoughts on the role, as she gives one hell of a performance (especially in some of the post-death scenes where a vision of Marie terrorizes Marcia).

I don't know if there was a change in the casting department when Calhoun arrived, but it seems like generally the casting got much stronger by late 1985.

[Mitch]

I would have loved to see some of the Natalie Tom story (plus I think that guy who played Tom in those pictures is kinda hot.) Would love to have seen some of Natalie's scenes with Lisa, as she was a younger version of her, or even of Natalie and Nancy (as in"oh [!@#$%^&*] here we go again, would these guys ever quit thinking with their d*cks!!!") Poor Carol was so boring and sexless. What did they ever think in marrying Tom off to her first.

Interesting point about the Doug Cummings storyline, Marcia, as played post 1995, would have been the over the top villianess so we would think it was her. As it is, she is underplayed so well that while we know there is something wrong with Marcia and we suspect her, we just don't know. The audience who could also so her living in Oakdale and going to the grocery store, etc, but still having some pretty weird secrets.

[DRW50]

That was C. David Colson, who does look handsome - I think that's kind of what suits Tom best, the stiff upper lip guy with classic looks (as Gregg Marx also had).

I wonder if they always had a clear story plan with Tom/Carol/Natalie, and if they had Tom marry Natalie because she was so nice and so stable, which he never had growing up. Then he was drawn to a woman who was closer to what he was used to, which was Lisa.

Then you had Joyce, who was also hovering around the Hughes family in these years. They seemed to run out of ideas for Tom in the late 70's - what if Joyce had seduced him? Imagine Lisa's fury, and the collective outrage of the Hughes family.

Marcia is a bit crazy but it can be passed off as just obsessing over Douglas. It's very clever though because you genuinely don't see any reason to believe Doug is the one who is killing people.

I think the last good villain ATWT had was Claire Bloom's Orlena.

[Khan]

You know what I love and miss most about Marland's writing? Number one, he never insulted viewers' intelligence or their knowledge of history and character. Even when characters such as Lisa and John had long-lost children, he wrote it so that the scenario behind their conception(s) was plausible and that you didn't have to ignore what had occurred already to make it work. And number two, I really cannot think of a kind of story that Marland didn't excel at. He wrote good mysteries, but he also wrote good social-issue stories, good young love stories, good older love stories, good family stories and good stories about corporations, too. The guy was just boss, IMO.