3 hours ago, NothinButAttitude said:

That's the problem. I never understood how a writer could take the position and not learn the history. Or at least ask someone about the history. Yes, Sheffer got the show out of slump, but as we both agree, he handled many of the vets poorly. It hurts my heart to hear that Helen Wagner had to plead with him to give her more airtime and he dismissed her. That does not sit well with me. I wondering if other writers tried to challenge him or just opted not to, to stay employed. And that is embarrassing that Hogan didn't know Margo was John's daughter. That probably makes sense as to why he wrote Larry Bryggman off the show, which was a criminal act in itself. 

I  do think that Hogan was trying to keep up with GH (I know he was obsessed with GH), which was he successful at, but it alienated so many loyal, long-term fans in the process.

Not to sound too catty, but it all confirms my belief that many award shows are bogus when it comes to handing out trophies in daytime drama categories. Fans know when certain people's work is not award-worthy. The judges? Not so much. I have a feeling that Sheffer and Carlivati won their awards for being "less bad" than the competition.

2 hours ago, NothinButAttitude said:

I do think that at the end when Daniel Cosgrove (my least favorite rendition) occupied the role they were finally starting to put in the role of lead, but I also think that was partly because he was latched to Katie--a pairing I loathed. I just had a hard time with Chris ever wanting to be with Katie after she accused him of stalking her during the Endicott arc. I don't even really remember her being remorseful and giving him a proper apology. 

I think most of us agree: bad casting was a major reason why the character of Chris never blossomed. TPTB never got the right actor for the part, although some were better than others.

The Chris/Katie pairing was ridiculous and I cringed at the very thought of Katie joining the Hughes family.

2 hours ago, adrnyc said:

Why does no one ever complain about the Lowell's grandchildren not popping up? 😄

We DO!

30 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I think Sheffer's idea of soap was just too cynical and dark to fit veteran characters.

That's a good way to put it. Sheffer's harsh, dark, cynical tone was the polar opposite of the homey, warm, family-based and humane Oakdale we had once known and loved (when the show was number one in the ratings for decades, I might add).

30 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I will credit Goutman with not dumping vets for quick cash. That's better than many managed.

Even I have to give him credit for that. Compared to TGL, I almost want to give Goutman an award for keeping our vets with us until the bitter end.

30 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

If we get into the realm of spent characters, a character like Lily felt more spent to me in ATWT's last decade than Bob or Kim, but then I wasn't writing the show...

I started to see Lily as Oakdale's version of Reva Shayne: overused, spent and in need of retirement.

2 hours ago, adrnyc said:

And having now watched what's available of the late 70s and then 80s, and read the synopsis of the series since its beginning, it cracks me up when people think the quadruplets should've been brought back. Maybe it's a shame that the Stewart family got boiled down to Emily, Susan (another long term vet who was used a lot in the aughts) and Allison but hey, at least they were still there as opposed to the Lowells. 

Why does no one ever complain about the Lowell's grandchildren not popping up? 😄

Emily and Allison were, technically, Lowell grandchildren. They just didn't carry the same last name. But then, nobody did so there couldn't be any grandchildren with the last name of Lowell. Judge Lowell only had one child, Jim, and Jim only had one child, a daughter Ellen who became a Stewart. The Lowell family was still represented by Emily and Allison at the end but the name couldn't carry on after the Judge and Jim died.

4 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

I think most of us agree: bad casting was a major reason why the character of Chris never blossomed. TPTB never got the right actor for the part, although some were better than others.

 

I think Chris Hughes suffered from the same problem that GL's Rick did. Bland casting and bland writing. 

Edited March 5, 20241 yr by Reverend Ruthledge

14 minutes ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

I think Chris Hughes suffered from the same problem that GL's Rick did. Bland casting and bland writing. 

Yes. Sad as it may be admit, Michael O'Leary was not leading-man material, and that only became more apparent as the years went on, and the actor's "mugging" escalated.

Both Christopher Hughes and Rick Bauer needed  strong, dynamic, charismatic actors to make the roles succeed, and that never came to be.

40 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

Yes. Sad as it may be admit, Michael O'Leary was not leading-man material, and that only became more apparent as the years went on, and the actor's "mugging" escalated.

Both Christopher Hughes and Rick Bauer needed  strong, dynamic, charismatic actors to make the roles succeed, and that never came to be.

What did you think of the relationship between Phillip Spaulding and Rick Bauer? To me, it seemed as if Phillip was supposed to be the “Alpha” male, while Rick was always the…well, not to be mean, but the “Beta”. Someone probably thought that, with Rick being from a surviving core family, they’d try to make him an “Alpha”, which is not a convincing role for him, especially as portrayed by Michael O’Leary, an actor best suited for playing the comedic sidekick, not the heavy, as portrayed by Grant Aleksander.

Maybe as an adult, Chris Hughes needed a “Rick Bauer” type to offer a contrast. Phillip and even Rick seemed like much better developed characters than Chris. Viewers at least saw the final stages of their teenage years into adulthood. Did we even see a teenage Chris Hughes with friends like we saw Andy and Paul or was it a Casey Hughes-like situation? Seemed as if Casey was slingshot into adulthood directly from early adolescence.

And Chris Hughes seemed to go through that same transition. Maybe who paid more attention to Chris Hughes maturation process someone can tell me if he had a teenage cohort, or a high school girlfriend or a graduation like other characters in the past.

25 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

What did you think of the relationship between Phillip Spaulding and Rick Bauer? To me, it seemed as if Phillip was supposed to be the “Alpha” male, while Rick was always the…well, not to be mean, but the “Beta”. Someone probably thought that, with Rick being from a surviving core family, they’d try to make him an “Alpha”, which is not a convincing role for him, especially as portrayed by Michael O’Leary, an actor best suited for playing the comedic sidekick, not the heavy, as portrayed by Grant Aleksander.

Maybe as an adult, Chris Hughes needed a “Rick Bauer” type to offer a contrast. Phillip and even Rick seemed like much better developed characters than Chris. Viewers at least saw the final stages of their teenage years into adulthood. Did we even see a teenage Chris Hughes with friends like we saw Andy and Paul or was it a Casey Hughes-like situation? Seemed as if Casey was slingshot into adulthood directly from early adolescence.

And Chris Hughes seemed to go through that same transition. Maybe who paid more attention to Chris Hughes maturation process someone can tell me if he had a teenage cohort, or a high school girlfriend or a graduation like other characters in the past.

This!😊

In terms of the vets I don't think anyone is expecting a frontburner story for them-although once in a while there might be a plot that would give them that status.

Rather i believe we want those characters to have an active part in their children and grandchildren's  lives and have a point of view and a stake in what is happening-not to appear every couple of weeks to lament or give pat advice.

Just as in the past the drama for the Hughes was about Penny and Bob-the young characters experiencing the turmoil but Chris/Nancy/Pa were involved and seen regularly. That generational storytelling would have worked in later years but the mindset was that nobody was interested in the old people.

And of course it didn't help that characters like Frannie/Andy/Kristina were MIA ,immediately marginalizing Kim/Bob/Nancy etc

Edited March 6, 20241 yr by Paul Raven

I wonder if the Penny recast would have worked better if they had waited a few years. They did that with Don

 

Maybe the writers weren’t interested or the character was indeed not replaceable . 

@Soapsuds Okay, so this interview with Jimmy Fallon came up in my recommendations and Julianne Moore mentions when she was on a soap opera (she didn’t mention which one, but ATWT is the soap she almost always mentions since her appearance on EON was quite brief) there was an actress who Moore could never keep a straight face with, if she looked her in the eyes, she had to look at her mouth as the actress was speaking. Now, I am trying to wrack my brain, trying to figure out who that was. I think I may have a candidate but I am keeping any guesses to myself in the event that I’m wrong 🤣.

 

While I agree the vets could have been better used (lol, it warms my heart to think Wagner didn't want to be in scenes dispensing advice to that lame brain Katie...) I don't think they were misused as badly as some do. 

 

9 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

@Soapsuds Okay, so this interview with Jimmy Fallon came up in my recommendations and Julianne Moore mentions when she was on a soap opera (she didn’t mention which one, but ATWT is the soap she almost always mentions since her appearance on EON was quite brief) there was an actress who Moore could never keep a straight face with, if she looked her in the eyes, she had to look at her mouth as the actress was speaking. Now, I am trying to wrack my brain, trying to figure out who that was. I think I may have a candidate but I am keeping any guesses to myself in the event that I’m wrong 🤣.

 

My guess...

42 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

My guess...

I think if it was Marisa Tomei, she would have said her name because people would know who that was. 

3 minutes ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

I think if it was Marisa Tomei, she would have said her name because people would know who that was. 

If it were Marisa Tomei, I think she would have said so also but not because of her name but because she and Julianne are close and Tomei would be cool with it, they are actually distant cousins. She may not want to reveal the person as she may not know if the person is cool with her revealing the name. Or the actress may no longer be with us.

50 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

My guess...

I feel like Marisa would have already told the story herself had it been her lol.

@DramatistDreamer

Eileen Fulton?😂

15 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

@DramatistDreamer

Eileen Fulton?😂

She hadn’t come to mind but hm, you never know!

5 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I think most of us agree: bad casting was a major reason why the character of Chris never blossomed. TPTB never got the right actor for the part, although some were better than others.

The Chris/Katie pairing was ridiculous and I cringed at the very thought of Katie joining the Hughes family.

I knew they were going to find some type of way to make Katie a Hughes in the end when Nancy's funeral became more about Katie than anyone else. I still bothers me that Goutman didn't pull the stick out of his a** and simply bring back Penny and Don for that one episode. I HATED Nancy's funeral episode. It was a disservice to Helen Wagner if you ask me. I did not care to see Katie sulk about being a widow and now losing Nancy. I wanted to see the Hughes grieve over Nancy. It's weird to me b/c I always say that ATWT (besides AW's handling of Doug Watson and Connie Ford's passings) is the one soap that has one of the best dedication episodes to a veteran actor in the genre and that was the death of Don MacLaughlin.  We saw a full-circle moment of life and death as they celebrated Chris' life, the announcement of Kim and Bob's baby, and the celebration of Christina. 

When it came to the many actors that played Chris, I did enjoy Dylan Bruce as Chris; however, I feel that the material he got was pure trash. 

5 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Yes. Sad as it may be admit, Michael O'Leary was not leading-man material, and that only became more apparent as the years went on, and the actor's "mugging" escalated.

I just grew to accept Rick/Michael O'Leary for what he provided. I never put much stock in Rick. This is why I hated that they wrote Michelle off. And as much as I am a MANNY fan, that pairing wrote her into a corner too soon. I could've did without Rick, but the only reason I wanted him to stick around was for them to SORAS Leah, so that she could give him h*ll alongside Blake's kids for his part in Ross' death.