As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[DramatistDreamer]

ATWT didn't need a happy ending, per se but it needed a satisfying ending which longtime viewers, those who had stuck with the show for decades especially, didn't get.

Personally, I didn't need a stereotypical happy ending but I didn't want or need one that would ring so hollow and superficial.

Many would say Bob and Kim had a happy ending, but I would disagree. They were sent off to Arizona, was it? Wasn't that were Chris and Nancy were shipped off to when the show decided they had no use for either character when Bunim, et al, decided to court a younger demo?

Many people might claim John and Lucinda got a happy ending but I thought having Lucinda, a self-described "business mogul" pick up and traipse after John to Amsterdam was weak sauce. If anything she should have been scheming to get John a emeritus teaching position at Oakdale University lecturing Pre-Med students and them both as co-chairs of the hospital board of directors. 

Barbara and Henry. Had Barbara Ryan followed the natural trajectory that had been started in the 80s and 90s, Erica Kane would've had serious competition for "Bad Boss B*tch" of daytime. If any character should have kept viewers guessing to the very end and beyond, it should've been Barbara. Every bada$s character had an "Our World" moment- Lisa left Oakdale for Chicago for a year, Erica tried on Hollywood for size, and Barbara should have looked to take BRO global. Maybe do a cross-over (like was done with Allison Stewart but much better) where Eric Forrester makes her an offer to collaborate on a capsule collection, or something. At least make it interesting where Babs has some conflict over whether to marry and settle down or seek a new business venture with a famous design house. The Tom and Margo house swap was low rent and low budget type of sad. Lily and Holden was clearly not meant to be a happy ending but imo, at least it was the one scenario that at least, seemed true to their tumultuous and back and forth history.

And all of the stories along the way, in the final months with Ben Harris and Mike Kasnoff just seemed like austerity storylines, truly drive-by depression caliber storytelling. I wouldn't blame the average viewer for being relieved to see the show end by then. They hadn't really written any compelling reasons for it to continue.

Edited October 6, 2021 by DramatistDreamer

[amybrickwallace]

Do you personally feel it was cheapened without Martha Byrne?

[DramatistDreamer]

 Ideally when you write an end for a series with such a long history and legacy, it should be written in a way, that even at it's end, it follows the aspect of a continuing story, one that people actually would want to pick up with these characters or continue them. Barbara landing at Forrester. John and Lucinda co-chairs of that board, wondering if Lucinda will convince John to again take the reigns at Memorial hospital or will Susan become the hospital's first woman chief of staff and which Lucinda would have wanted to prevent. Lisa, the romantic should have been exploring the then still new world of online dating for seniors. There should have been intrigue to the very last drop.

[amybrickwallace]

I like all those ideas, and I'm sure the cast would have loved to play out any of those scenarios. Too bad Chris Goutman just gave up.

[Forever8]

I think it was obvious from Holden and Lily's last scene that they would go back to each other. Though you would think Lucinda would scheme to get John to take over Memorial as Chief of Staff since Bob was retiring wasn't he?!

 

[DramatistDreamer]

Cheapened is an interesting word. The endings for every character was cheapened in the end. I think the staging of those last scenes taking place in practically a hallway made to look like a threshold of a doorstep certainly didn't help matters. The actress was always miscast, imo, it almost didn't matter by the end, but I tried to look at the ending story, at that point. Perhaps if Byrne or even *gasps* Rattray or heck Lucy Deakins had reprised the role, perhaps I would have focused as much on the characters as the story trajectory of Lily and Holden. If anything, I was able to analyze it more clinically, without any hint of sentimentality, because I felt none.

[slick jones]

For Lisa's ending, I would have brought Grant Colman back for a case about a week before the end and finally catch up with her in the penultimate episode, inviting her to dinner "for old time's sake".  Over dinner they could discuss Oakdale, complete with some flashbacks including Penny, Don, Joyce, etc. As they are finishing dinner, Kim, Bob, Penny, Ellen and Mary, Don's wife are shown across the restaurant. The ladies , in town to wish Bob and Kim well. The finale opens with the group at the Hughes house.  "Coffee Dear" from the first episode opens, with Kim serving coffee, and various members of the family join and leave...as well as friends.

Edited October 6, 2021 by slick jones

[amybrickwallace]

I hear you. Though I think Noelle Beck won the respect of many ATWT fans in the end for offering to step aside.

[Forever8]

And imagine if Lisa had been online the last month or so of the show. Connecting with some mysterious guy and have it turn out to be Grant Colman at the finale when she finally meet up with him. 

[DramatistDreamer]

Yes, Holden and Lily break up to make up, which is why their "ending" simply felt like the latest in an ongoing cycle, rather than an end to anything.

Yes, Bob was retiring (which he could have done perfectly well in Oakdale), and that should have set off a stethoscope race for the top seat, with Emily encouraging her mother to grab it and Lucinda convincing John of the opportunity to finally run the hospital and shape its future his way, without the interference from Bob Hughes (but plenty of input from her, would be John's sarcastic reply).

 

Lisa should have had many to choose from, she had chemistry with a number of characters over the years, Joe Bailey, who was once Tom's boss at the crime commission and Jerry Halperin, the fashion clothing distributor that had a falling out with Barbara. Or it could be someone brand new. Lisa could have tried speed dating and any number of 21st century dating techniques, had Casey or someone help her build her online dating profile. Lisa was always a character surrounded by youth and embracing the new, which is how we should have seen her doing at the final months of the series, instead of the nothingburger that she ended up with.

[Forever8]

Yep!!!

And let's not mention the lack of thought for the next generation of the finale. I mean didn't Parker decide to become a cop? While Casey decided to go back to school in the last week too? 

If anyone should've left town it could've been Jack and Carly. Carly could've finally gotten her own fashion label in New York City as Jack contemplates them leaving town. However, he decides to go because it is time he puts Carly first as well as her dreams. We could've gotten a blurb that he got a job back at the FBI or a detective for the NYPD. 

[victoria foxton]

@Soapsuds 

  

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Edited October 6, 2021 by victoria foxton

[lilyredd]

I think John was the new chief of staff- Susan made a remark about it in the finale. 

[DramatistDreamer]

She could also have been thinking that having Martha reprise the role would have freed up some time for her, that she could've spent auditioning for new roles, since the series was all but over at that point. It would've been a win for her as well.

I think Casey had decided to go to law school at the last minute, which made little sense, given his academic trajectory and the interests he had in music and hospitality. I could have seen him becoming an entrepreneur in the mold of his grandmother, maybe even apprenticing to one day take over a few of her businesses. That would be an aspect of generational continuity.

I don't mind Parker becoming a cop but couldn't they have had written a more 21st century take on it? Maybe a forensic pathologist or forensic detective? CSI was such a huge hit for CBS back then, I'm surprised they didn't try to incorporate any of that shine.

Did Andy ever return? Since Kim actually owned the house (if you remember Bob moved into her house after they married), it should have been handed over to Andy and Chris and Andy could have taken ownership of the house. Maybe he and Denise agreed that while she builds up her dance studio, he would take over custodial parent duties with Hope. To see Andy with his teenage daughter in tow, interacting with her grandparents could have been good. Even better if Hope were interested in medicine. Oh boy, the future clashes between Andy and his father over that one!

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by DramatistDreamer

[DramatistDreamer]

There were many ways, they could have built intrigue as a final "see what you could've had, P&G/CBS?" finger in the eye to detractors, had they cared.