As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

Yes. She seemed to do most of what various hacks got credit for.

[DRW50]

From a November 1992 Digest

[P.J.]

ahhhh....memories. Thanks!

[DRW50]

[DramatistDreamer]

Thanks DRW50 for posting that Willows story conclusion:

Technically, I can see that a few scenes dragged a bit (Grant, Ellen & David) but I generally liked the flow of the dialogue. For the most part, I think all the technical aspects complemented each other really well. There was that one scene where Lisa was describing reading Ruth's journal about her love for Bennett and how it turned sour, the music heightened to the edge of being overly melodramatic but for the most part that music was subtle but evocative of the scenes.

The lighting is very reminiscent of those theater productions from the late 70s that you see on TV every now and then, in a good way, at least for me. Yes, the makeup was noticeable but Kim and Lisa both looked beautiful and the lighting helped illuminate that. Lisa looked luminescent, freckles and all and I liked the way they were both outfitted, lush but it suited the occasion and both women could pull it off.

I do see what people meant about the way Ellen was outfitted though. She looked older than she should have. I the mid '80s, she was styled much more suitably. I do like the fact that in the scenes with Grant, they juxtaposed the anxiety over what was going on at the Willows with wondering what's going on with Dee but those scenes needed some sort of pick up. I'm all for actors taking their time but the dialogue at times dragged just a little bit more than what I would've preferred-- to the point of almost meandering.

The camera work is great though and I really like those dissolves from one scene to the next. It adds to the dark dreamscape quality of the episode. Today's soaps seem to have very sharp cuts from one scene to the next, unless they're doing some sort of montage (complete with musical interlude) but this episode featured gentler cuts, almost as if each scene were cut with a scalpel--if that made any sense--but the cuts were delicately executed. It worked for me. Those directors, cameramen and post production editing crew really knew how to ply their trade!

Maybe because this episode featured family and close family friends but there was a definite intimacy in these scenes that I find lacking in some of today's soaps, even in scenes featuring family members. In the scenes with Tom and Bob, up worried about Lisa, and Bob preoccupied with other relationships. Even in the scene with Grant, David and Ellen, I didn't find myself wondering why he would be there at almost midnight, it made sense that they'd want to be where they are.

Maybe all the close ups where you can get close to the characters, see their expressions, you don't feel as though you are being kept at a distance, you're being invited in, even in the midst of all that dark intrigue.

But yes, I do realize that they would also need subsequent episodes featuring a young set as well to mix in. For this episode, though, I thought the set of characters were enough to craft an intriguing episode.

Edited December 13, 2013 by DramatistDreamer

[DRW50]

I haven't watched this yet but I appreciate all your insights.

[DramatistDreamer]

Lots of good stuff to mull over and discuss in these episodes. I guess I felt inspired to put my thoughts out there. Thanks for reading!

[DRW50]

I'm a ways behind - I think I'm on the one where Kim finds the note on Ruth's dress. I leave my comments on the videos but it's nice reading them here.

I do feel like there's a sense of community in these episodes. I was thinking of the last clip I watched, where so many other characters were involved in the business problems between Ralph and Jay.

(poor Jay dressed like a Scotch tape dispenser)

[DRW50]

[DRW50]

[cassadine1991]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOM7_mRZjqk

[Vee]

Rose was a favorite of mine. And the relationship with Scott Holroyd's Paul.

I loved Cassandra Creech. I have never understood why another soap didn't snap her up - well, I do know, it's because they mostly don't care about black women. She did a bit a few years after this on GH as a lady assassin working for Faith Rosco, and she was great.

Is that Craig Lawlor as Adam? Jesus, he was wonderful and I don't know why he left but when they brought Adam back later it was some completely different character who had no resemblance to the boy everyone watched grow up. P&G seemed to delight in mutilating those young legacy characters in the last decade.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Vee

[DramatistDreamer]

There were so many poor decisions made during the final decade of the show, it almost hurts to discuss it.

Cassandra Creech cuts a powerful figure (and I mean that in the best possible way) and to keep Denise vital as a character would have required a strong writer that had a genuine understanding of Denise's complicated backstory and elevate the character without judging her past or sanitizing the character.

There was a lot of upside to the character but writing for her seemed to be beyond the capabilities of the writers of the last decade, most notably Sheffer who got ratings moving at first but had the attention span of a gnat and often resorted to hair-brained crazy storylines characterized by scenes featuring pratfalls (having Barbara go through a window after doing a Grouch Marx impersonation was too much for me).

Hope could have been/should have been an important character in Oakdale. She should have been deeply connected to the Dixons, the Snyders and the Hughes. Her connection to Faith would have been explored and they should have grown up knowing this special connection even if they became eventual rivals. Yeah, but Hope got the 'Bonnie treatment' only worse because at least Jessica remained in Oakdale for some years after Bonnie was sent away (nevermind the fact that Jessica was eventually demeaned and stripped of most of the qualities that the character became known for).

I know P&G wanted to extract themselves from producing soaps but sometimes it seemed as if they had a very willing partner from the creative side. Or in Sheffer's case, a fairly indifferent one.

[P.J.]

I don't know...I know Denise bothered a lot of people for selling her baby. And I know I never bought her romance with Ben. I do think it's too bad Kim never got to spend any time with her ONE biological grandchild.

Sometimes I don't really think it's Sheffer's fault. He needed a strong co-writer. One who literally understood why you can't and/or shouldn't repeat plots (like that stupid island Lily&Simon and Katie were stuck on) or write entire stories that take place "out" of town, and literally strand a group of characters by themselves for the duration. Knew how to develop characters instead of relying on stunt casting to facilitate a change in character. I think he was in over his head from day one, he just had a strong enough staff to write his ass out of it. Once he bought into his own press, he was toast.

[DRW50]

Denise was very unpopular with fans at first, because she sold her baby, and because her story was heavily featured from the start, which is a bad idea for new characters.

I did like her, and I'm sorry they didn't do more with her, especially outside of Ben, as I thought they had no chemistry. I remember when she and Rose had some dance school for kids, Raindancers or something, but nothing came of it.

I think Craig Lawlor was fired, which was a mistake, as he would have been like Scott Defrietas, or even better.

I think deep down Goutman had contempt for any ATWT that had come before him.