As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[Vee]

Look, I have a lot of love and respect for the P&G soaps and all this rich history but at least half of this stuff has all the energy of a particularly slow bingo night. It's not about the actual age of the performers, either, because as Carl points out, many of them were young but still come off incredibly stodgy and drained of life. The whole show just feels very brownish-gray to me. And it's certainly the opposite of how, say, Doug Marland's ATWT feels when I watch it.

I'm not ageist in the slightest, I'm just reacting to the rhythm of the show or lack thereof.

[DRW50]

Definitely. I love ATWT's cast in this time. I mean, look at Judith McConnell alone. She may have looked or played a little older than her age, but even in a supporting role, on her way out, she had a certain poise and effortless glamour that made ATWT unique. That's not even getting into Hays, Fulton (who plays a somewhat damaged and self-destructive, foolhardy ingenue, all while in her late 30s), and so many other talents.

In terms of stories, I actually think the Willows story is exciting and fascinating, mostly because of Fulton and the woman who plays Hester (who is a very convincing hysteric). The other stories are treading water, or feel very much grafted on (Annie/Jeff and their married lovers), although the Sheila/Tom/Barbara saga had potential, as does Betsy's struggle for identity (which feels more authentic than most young rebel stories on soaps) and Melinda is a huge spark plug. I think the actual storylines, what we have of them, are missing, but the potential is there.

It's just the younger people who drag the tone down, along with some of the production value. I don't even really want to compare to GH because, aside from Laura and perhaps Bobbie (who was more of an anti-heroine), they had a tough time creating young heroines. Just comparing it to AMC - Brooke English was not that much younger than Annie, and she'd arguably been through even more than Annie (rape, abortion), but she seemed more alive, whereas Annie just seems extremely stale to me, and tedious, whining away about her married boyfriend.

Suzanne Davison has a soulful quality and I think she could have carried more story, but most of the actresses who are a little older, the age of ingenues on other soaps that were doing well at this time, don't quite cut it. One of the few who does for me - Arianne Munker - was written out/left the show within six months.

Of course ATWT got the last laugh here, because by the mid-80s they'd built up a popular younger group, and a popular young heroine in Lily (I didn't care for her but she was popular and I can assume she helped bring younger viewers to the show), while the ABC soaps were really floundering and starting to seem strange and stale and trapped in their own reality.

But at this particular time, if I was an ATWT viewer and I'd gone over to watch OLTL and seen the likes of Karen and Jenny, I might have been torn on which show to follow.

Edited November 17, 2013 by DRW50

[Limenade]

Interesting to see Nancy and Valerie having lunch at that fancy French restaurant (fluted colonnades, white linen table cloth, etc.) Nancy recommending the oyster stew when Tom and Barbara when they came in.

[P.J.]

Yeah, I don't think those comments had anything to do with ageism. I think it speaks to the difference in eras---today there is a clearer definition of an character's individual look. Yes, today a 50 yr old lawyer would still be running around occasionally in man panties, and I definitely think there was more reliance on acting presence rather than appearance...but let's not kid ourselves---it's the way we view them that's changed. Not the fact they were more attractive than the person off the street. Then, as now, pretty was the rule, not the exception.

[Soaplovers]

During Marland's brief stint as head-writer in 1979, does it appear as if Betsy would have been his 'Lily' character had he remained long-term? Plus, I wonder what kind of poor family he would have introduced onto the show in 1979.. and if he would have displaced the Stewart family.

[All My Shadows]

I'm actually enjoying all of this stuff much more than I've ever enjoyed any of the late 80s Marland stuff.

[DRW50]

The Stewart family were still a strong presence in 1979. By the time he returned in 1985, most of them were gone, aside from Betsy and Ellen (and sometimes David).

I could see him focusing on Betsy if he'd stayed on. Frankly, she is far more believable to me than Lily ever was.

Well it's a little more...pure, for lack of a better term, because there isn't the unwieldy roster, and some of his pet issues as a writer (like the toxic Snyder interrelations) aren't on display.

[Sapounopera]

I find this ATWT era very interesting. It is obvious that the writer (Marland?) wants to invest in younger characters with Betsy's stories. No need for a teenager on a soap to be chasing mobsters with her rapist in order to be fun.

I like Dee, Melinda, Jeff, Marcia, Lisa, Mary and Barbara a lot.

What I always loved about ATWT were the sophisticated women like Kim and Barbara (Valerie is one of them) and the warmth of characters like Bob and Ellen. This Tom works for me because he looks like Bob's son.

I don't find Dana or Sheila that interesting, but these episodes are great soap. I don't see anything boring and people don't look old to me. Are they that older than today's Sonny, Carly, Daniel Jonas, Kristen DiMera, Bill Spencer, the Logan sisters or Nick & Sharon?

[Mitch]

OH-KAY! I often wonder if the people who invoke Karma don't realize that it works both ways..so perhaps your right now your saying one thing..and some bitchy person will not understand and jump down YOUR throat!

So..what I was saying is that the show had WAY too many middle aged people, who all looked and acted the same....(how many lawyers were in that scene anyway???) There was no energy, the lighting was crap, hell even Betsy was dressed like a frau..poor Pat Brueder was dressed to look 20 years older, etc, hell, even Helen Wagner dressed younger in the 80s then she did here (maybe it was the times???) The needed diversity bad, both in the types of characters and in their ages.

Granted..the show went TOO far by getting rid of Chris and Nancy and destroying that whole "family," interconnectedness. And as others have pointed out, they got rid of them but still kept the bad sets, lighting, etc.

And really when I think of the ABC soaps at that time I was thinking of All My Kids which was the as close to ATWT an ABC show could get (multigenerational surrounding families...etc.) While I don't like the camp of AMC the energy and just .."liveliness," of the show was what ATWT needed.

Yes, Marland turned Nancy into the sweet grandma but you can take that as her mellowing. I remember on AW didn't Lemay base the Matthews Aunt character on Nancy Hughes, though inverted it as the town busy body. Lemay always thought it was odd that Nancy Hughes was meddling in her middle aged kids lives, and ruled everyone, and everyone took it for granted that she was "good." I think he was consulting when Wagner returned right before Marland and she retained that imperious edge...they were cooking up Lisa driving a wedge between Nancy and Kim..which could have been interesting but so not Marlandish.

As I said before...I like this Tom, if they had made him less stuffy. Deas was WAY too different. I think he would have worked better as his Santa Barbara character , though not bad, just weird and rebellious and it was him defending John in the rape trial...(as no one in town would defend him) instead of Maggie who felt tacked on to the Montgomery family. Deas would have worked as a buddy of Tom's from Vietnam who went to law school and was kind of jealous of the Golden Boy who he felt had it handed to him, kind of mirroring John's relationship with Bob, etc.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Mitch

[Soaplovers]

I always assumed Maggie was a popular character on the show. I know that she was my mom's favorite character during the early 80s.

[DRW50]

That's weird - my mother was a fan of hers too. She barely watched ATWT during that time (she was busy) but she would recognize Maggie when she saw photos of her and when she started watching some of the old episodes again she told me she always liked Maggie.

Never really knew why the character ceased to exist after 1985.

[Soaplovers]

I asked my mom last year her thoughts of the show from the late 70s through mid-80s since she was in her 20s at that time, target audience.

Her fav characters were Maggie, Diana McColl, Lisa, Joyce, Natalie (Judith Chapman version), Kim, Tom, Barbara and Bob.

She was bothered when Chris and Nancy were written out while she liked Betsy once Lindsay Frost started playing her. Plus, she thought Mr Big was a stupid story LOL

[DRW50]

My mother barely had the time to watch but she always liked Betsy a lot (Meg Ryan's Betsy) and Steve, and so on, and of course Bob, Kim, Lisa, etc. She barely remembered Colin's Margo and preferred HBS.

[DRW50]

[DRW50]