ATWT: December Discussion

[Soapsuds]

Lucinda and Emma are love. The last line was so errie and moving.....sad.....tearful...sigh....

The Don Hastings narration seemed so retro 70's/ 80's to me for some reason.

I think CBS turned off the switch too soon for ATWT. The show still has life in it.

[P.J.]

That's what kills me. Guiding Light, God Bless her...was gutted long before she left. Between a spat of bad actors (*ahem* most anyone under thirty), bad writing and BAD production values, the core of the show rotted away before our eyes. There was too much focus on too many marginal stories.

OTOH, ATWT feels on fire right now. Yes, the production values have suffered, but we still don't have random people meeting in a random park (which may occasionally double for a foreign country which we're told "looks just like home") to discuss random events that strung together are supposed to approximate a "story". ATWT isn't giving up...and it felt like GL did.

[DRW50]

I agree. The show has a lot of flaws but still a lot of good. I'll be sad to see it go.

As for Luke and Hunter, we'd probably end up hearing what we hear now with Noah -- the guy who plays Hunter can't act, the stories are ridiculous, they can't show each other any affection. It's just what is going to be allowed on a CBS show.

The narration was heartwarming, and I'm glad they at least referenced that Emma has other kids.

[Saving ATWT]

I'm been reading this board for a while but just finally joined up as a 'member'. Today's eppy was solid, and Don Hastings was so right when he spoke about Oakdale having more stories to tell. NuLilly did a good job but will never be the real Lilly Walsh. After Martha felt, maybe the character should have fallen into another coma and joined Roseanna in deamland. I was thrilled to see Lucinda and the joke about her being The Queen was a nice touch. I don't understand why TPTB fail to use her more often: she is ATWT's answer to Y&R's Kay Chancellor. Today's only failings: too many kids and that silly Guiding Light-Style music. For a moment, it felt like I was watching a cheezy Lifetime movie. World Turns has always had a soft spot for kids but this was too much.

ATWT still has a lot of life, many new stories to tell. Just look at the chem of Carjack. Who will be Katie's next soulmate? I have a great idea: why doesn't PGP sell the show to either CBS or another broadcast/cable network. I don't know World Turns' dollar value BUT a dead show is worthless. Even if PGP can only sell the show for $1, at the least they'd get good press. Every soap mag and site like After Elton would write an article. Proctor and Gamble's PR team could spin this in so many ways: World Turns dedication to social issues; Luke, Noah and tolerance on TV; Barbara and Lucinda and battle against cancer; family values; love for their consumers. Free press!! This is how to save the show and someone should try for an Xmas miricle and start a petition. This reminds me, they should have made some remark about Lucinda's cancer battle. It would have provided a warm moment for Lucinda and Emma and explained why no lush party was taking place up at the Walsh mansion.

One other thing: I wish their had been a Ryan Christmas eppy aside from squatting Nut Meg and party crasher NuJames. It is time, especially now that Emily and 'James' have rejoined the brood, to give the Ryan's a more vital role on the show. If I were the writers, I'd find Babs a man pronto!

[rcsnj]

I have to say that I very much disliked yesterday's episode. Noelle Beck simply isn't Lily. The powers that be should do anything and everything to get Martha Byrne back to wrap up the show.

The reveal about Faith applying for boarding school was shoddy writing at best. What school would accept a minor without her parents' permission? And the writers dumbed down Emma unbelievably yesterday. Emma gave Holden and Lily the essay Faith had written for admittance into the school yet said she thought Faith had written it as a part of a contest. Then, when Lily read the letter aloud, there was a bit about something like "if you accept me in to your school". So, are we really supposed to accept that Emma, who raised six children, wasn't the least bit suspicious about the essay? Sorry. That's terrible, lazy writing to get a pivotal character off the canvas so they can age her.

[dragonflies]

The Christmas episode was great, loved Bob narrating.

I agree completely! NB just seems like she's phoning it in. I hope they get MB before the show ends

[Khan]

Let's put it this way: whether or not Noelle Beck could've made Lisha (for "Lily" and "Trisha") her own, the writing is giving her absolutely no support whatsoever.

[Khan]

It's just shameful Byrne's departure happened so abruptly. Otherwise, if the writers had had more time, perhaps - perhaps - they could have scripted a proper reunion/exit for her and for Holden. (Yes, Holden, too.)

[P.J.]

^^^We agree on that. And honestly, the writing for Lily wasn't great when Martha was in the role. It still boils my butt the way Carly was thrown under the bus to set up a big ol' well of sympathy for "Lily", only to have TIIC go right back to Lilden and this piss poor writing for the "heroine" of the show.

[Khan]

In a way, P.J., you're right. The writing wasn't doing Martha any favors either (although, I'm biased enough to believe she can make just about any material shine, lol). I realize Martha had terrific chemistry and history w/ Jon Hensley, but I was so over "Lilden" as soon as it was clear Lily had grown up and no longer needed her hunky stableboy to protect her.

As for Carly, though, that poor girl has been thrown under the old bus a lot - and not just where her affair w/ Holden was concerned, either. Time and time again, I've said Carly has no business being "tied down" in the sort of star-crossed love story w/ Jack that would play much better w/ Rosanna. (And, oh God, the drinking problem - did we really have to go there? Anyway, I digress.) To me, that's like saying Bob and Lisa are each other's true loves. Carly, like Lisa, serves a much more useful purpose as pot-stirrer and anti-heroine. Whenever she (inevitably) screwed up once again w/ Jack, I always cheered, in a way, b/c, in my mind, that's what she is supposed to do. It's only when (again, IMO) the more rabid fans complained, or when Goutman's ADD would act up again, or when the writers were too lazy to try something new and fresh for these characters, that we would get slapdash, soulless Carjack reunion (and baby) no. three-thousand-and-I-lost-track.

[Soapsuds]

I'm just hoping for a Linden reunion(wedding) with Martha back in the role with all the Snyders back. Carjack wedding too at the end. Plus a Bob/Kim wedding anniversary of some type with the Hughes back as well. I'll be a happy campier if all that happens towards the end of ATWT run.

[P.J.]

I must have missed the point Lily "grew up" and didn't need Holden anymore. She's always been such a childish, fickle, dependent on every man who crosses her path character, IMO.

To say I violently disagree with your assessment of Carly and Jack would be an understatement. Carly is a "pot stirrer"...but she also has a heart that's brought out by her love for Jack and her family. I think a layered, nuanced performer like Maura demands more than the obligatory "pot-stirrer" role. Where's the conflict in that? Every "pot-stirrer" has to be grounded, otherwise all you have is a amoral lump of flesh like Craig Montgomery. Where daytime has gone wrong is in pigeon-holing characters as "good" "bad" "noble" or "selfish", instead of giving each character a rounded personality. Yes, I love Carly's bitchy side...but I also love her generosity, even when I think she's given it to asshats who don't deserve it like Craig or Simon.

I'd thank you for blaming the demise of ATWT on Goutman selling out to Carjack fans, but as a Carjack fan, I can assure you, we've been shafted more than any "rabid" fanbase on record. "Soulless reunion" my ass.

[Soapsuds]

Goutman is to blame for ATWT demise but CarJack was only one of his mistakes. The firing of Scott Bryce was another big mistake of his. The final nail on the coffin was Martha Byrne being fired. It was obvious P&G and Goutman were railroading ATWT for failure. Add that his ABC addition to the show...so many I have lost count. Instead he should have focused on the Hughes, Snyders, Ryans and Stewarts. What did we get instead??? Liberty and Parker's teen storyline which went nowhere(which no one wanted in the first place or cared for) and ABC stars dominating our screen.

[DRW50]

I know there was always debate over whether Carly was somehow repressed by Jack but I often felt like, at least when I watched the show regularly, it was more the whim of the writing which repressed her. It was noticeable but not as bad when Broderick was headwriter -- they did try to push him with Julia (she drove me crazy), but soon shipped her into being Reid's doormat. I did sometimes get the feeling we were supposed to see Brad as more of a match for Carly, but the revolving door of Brads put paid to that. It was more a few years later.

Sheffer's hatred of Jack and love of Craig was a heavy influence on his writing and that often translated into the idea that she could be her real self with Craig but not with Jack. The problem with that was Craig only accepted a "real" person when he could use and destroy them. Craig destroyed or attempted to destroy so many women, especially during Sheffer's run. Barbara. Sierra. Lucy. Rosanna. Jack was more of the self-righteous huffing and puffing type but when the writing was there for Carly and Jack, I thought they were a very good mix. The stuff they had before Maura's 2000 maternity leave, the lie bet and all that, I really enjoyed.

[P.J.]

DOOL took a HUGE risk writing off John and Marlena a year ago, and look at them now. It's about story. Some may think "soulless reunions" are sellouts---I'd argue that cheap writing is a bigger "sellout" by TIIC. It's writing Cady McClain off with two comas. It's writing Scott Bryce's Craig out by blowing up Paul's car, and then arbitrarily deciding to recast the role and never punish Craig for his actions. It's killing off legacy characters like Jen Munson and Bryant Montgomery because of departures or miscasting. It's bringing back Bonnie, and doing absolutely nothing with her. It's having mild success with "fringe" characters like Derek, then doing absolutely NOTHING with a talented actor while exABC hair models piss away your summer with contrived POS story like WiggleAss Audrey. It's recasting pivotal roles and shoving that character down our throat the first seven months he's on, as he takes over Oakdale fighting for a child we don't care about and bedding women who've sworn they'd "never let him touch me again".