Well eventually, won't Kish effect the Rex/Gigi/Stacy/Skye crew?

As for Shaun/Rachel/Greg I don't know, the show has put some effort in connecting Rachel and Schyler as friends. Shaun's shooting effected the Cramer/Manning family deeply (Shaun has been closely associated with that crew). The only black character I seriously don't see being integrated well is perhaps Greg, Layla, and maybe Destiny.

Well I'm not going to watch. So keep me updated with they start to connecting Kish ,Rachal, & Shaun. & I still won't watch this show. I'm really upset what they did to Evangeline. & none of her friends remember her. I'm talking about Todd & John.

Just because I'm Native American/American Indian(either term works for me) myself but nobody and I mean nobody ever attempts to portray us. Or when they do it's done very horrendously. I doubt this will ever change. I can't think of any NA/AI characters on daytime ever.

WOW First of all I'd like to applaude you for starting this thread (I never start threads on SON) I don't know why I think because I would read such profoundness here I was kinda intimidated years ago people really know their business here. Then once I felt I could hang with the big dogs on the front porch. Most of my thoughts had already been posted (like this) LoL...

The Bad: I have a huge huge problem w/soaps & diversity mainly the portrayal of women, and how (ABC GH) portray the vets (age) and the non-portrayal of African Americans (GH) in top tier LEADS in LEAD story. The Beulahland Butterfly McQueen mentality of the portrayal of Sonya Eddie's Epiphany.

The way they treated Renee Elise Goldsberry, and Kent Masters King and how Angie and Jessie is being portrayed. How Victoria Rowell was treated re: Emmy & not letting her break ground to become a 'writer'

The Sad: African Americans were HUGE soap opera fans and they have contributed greatly to the dying of this genre (although we don't get credit or mentioned in articles of having influence re: this) because most of us got tired of waiting around for diversity in a "fair and balanced" way and we've for the most part have walked. In my experience, once African Americans leave a soap they are gone aren't coming back. My issue is ABC's "Cotton Club" mentality.

The Ugly: You can bring NeYo, Mary J. Blige to perform but I'll be damn if you can be a lead actress in top tier story. They are pimping Kelly Monaco to the rafters but what did Frons do for Kent Masters King and Kiko Elsworth when they came to GH Zilch and their fans walked. Ratings reflect also the loss of African Americans watching soap opera!

And as far as them going to Africa? I have never read anything so insulting to me as an African American bring a African back to star on General Hospital then I'll be impressed otherwise stop pretending to care about diversity that's all I thought about seeing Lucci, Geary and Monaco up there what hypocrites, what bullshit they are peddling. My issue with soaps? Age, Race, and Gender. I am a huge Minae Nojii fan (Dr. Kelly Lee GH). I never see her..I guess she's recurring too...I was hoping for a "romantic storyline for her with the Asian guy McFarty on GH who worked at the Metro Court but golly gee they let him go or even Dr. Andy the anesthesiolgist that got Ko'd in the bioToxin storyline.

The Good: You see us on the screen even though its wall paper bit day players eg sitting in restaurants, a judge on AMC...sitting in the hospital or an orderly, working at the airport. These actors are allowed to say a few lines from time to time/

The Ugly: I remember when you didn't see Black/Spanish/Asian/Gay (or straight) people period. I watched (I was young but remember) The Halls, The Grays, The Gannons and the Asian Blair.

The Good: Ron Carlivati, DOL, ATWT there are shows who portrayed minorities in lead story with a positive focus; I use to think that about Y/R.

The Bad: How Olivia (Y/R)is not given lead story just a prop, Tatyana Ali was awesome mesmorizing as Devon's girlfriend, I haven't seen her lately. I guess she's gone...Devon actor was tweeting some of his concerns...What are they doing over there with Neil Winters? He's not IMO driving lead story.

The Bad: Why this genre is dying is a lot of "their fault" not always the audience not watching because the ones that are they are working over with crappy stories....they refuse to write for a changed global society they are still sticking with old formulas imo keeping minorities in their places.

WheW thanks a lot this felt good!!

The Excellent: (ABC) Ron Carlivati. I was happy with Angie/Jessie coming back but I see it was a (Pratt) stunt. I like Frankie and his bride but I want to see Angie and Jessie in some serious lead story as lead actors..

The most racist soap GH hands down without a doubt. Not speaking about Maurice Benard who is of Spanish descendents. Guza does not like Black folk. I was stunned when he gave Kent such a great front burner storyline on NS1 which didn't but could have transcended to GH in a kickass story with Graham Shiels (Cody Paul) their fans waited...She was regulated to the bench duty he slowly appeared then disappeared they refuse to write for her/him/ or for them. Same said with Kiko Elsworth.

I cancelled soapnet when I had it there were no black people on it (other than whoever appeared on the re-run soaps, Ugly Betty meaning their "original programming". It may have changed but I don't watch it anymore so I don't know.

I don't know that I would have changed a WORD of this had I written it myself. I think I've 'despised' GH writers since Justice was killed and his body was found stuffed in the trunk of a car. He was a damned Quartermaine! The writers have no love for the Quartermaines but putting him in the trunk of a car!?!?!?! Once Monti Sharp was cast in the role, I knew where they were going with the character. They were going to give us more of GL's 'David Grant' than GH's 'Justice Ward'. They took a refined, elegant, well-educated, brilliant lawyer and transformed him into something unrecognizable. Don't get me started on Epiphany. I can't even watch her. I FF all of her scenes. I pretend she's not even on the show. I have no problem with the actress, just the role.

What they've done to Sonny is so degrading that I actually feel sorry for Maurice Benard. He's such a good actor and he's been given such a limited range of emotions and storylines to play. I have to wonder how much of MB's time is spent fighting the writers on any stereotypical behavior/dialogue/storyline they want him to play out. Did they want more 'accent' from him? Did they want Sonny to throw out occasional use of Spanish? Why is there no counter to Sonny?

While OLTL has a much better track record with diversity than the other ABC soaps, I'm also still stunned by the recasting of 'Blair Daimler'(Mia Korf).... I don't think any other soap has changed the race of a character with so little backlash and apparently without a hint of shame... I love that 'colorblind casting' usually works in only one direction - though the stunt casting of A. Martinez as Roy DiLucca deserves some attention. While I love KDP in the role of Blair, I think the loss of Blair's identity should go down as one of soaps most shameful moments.... followed by YnR bragging that it had placed daytime's first leading male Asian American actor on contract and then shortly after killing off his character, and GH's decimation of the 'Asian Quarter'.

soapfan770, I don't know of any Native American characters in daytime before either. Harding Lemay grew up part of his early years on or near a reservation, and I believe is part Native American (Mohawk), but I don't think he ever wrote any Native American characters into Another World.

I had forgotten about Zeke. Wasn't he almost involved with someone? Or was that Marshall on AW? That actor played Marshall too right? Is it true the story w/Felicia was dropped because of complaints, or network fear?

I don't remember Zeke on AMC being almost involved with someone so you're probably thinking of Marshall on AW. No, neither actor who played Zeke (Ruben Santiago-Hudson and Joe Morton - I didn't know till I looked it up just now that there were two, for some reason I only remembered one) appears to have been any of the Marshalls on AW. But, I looked it up, Joe Morton, one of the actors who played Zeke on AMC, did play Abel Marsh on Another World (another character on during the '83-'85 period I mentioned earlier when Lloyd Gold was one of the writers).

I don't know what the story is about why they dropped Marshall/Felicia. I was still in elementary school or junior high when that happened. Wow, even as late as the mid-90s they couldn't do a black male, white female romance? It shows that in some ways things have gotten better since then, as I don't think that would be actively stopped by the network or P&G now (although there still aren't many such romances).

Edited October 8, 200916 yr by jfung79

I swear, just when I think I've gotten over it, someone goes and mentions Mia Korf and I get mad all over again! I of course in no way blame Kassie DePaiva, but recasting Blair with a Kentucky fried blonde was criminal. Imagine little Amerasian Starr and Jack... and assuming they still would have given Starr all that story, just imagine how wonderful it would have been with a young girl of asian decent playing such front burner stories on a soap.

I read on SoapCentral (probably via a soap mag) that Chauntee said she's not being written off, just that Bonnie is going to have light story (as opposed to???) for a while.

Oh, I missed seeing this ... Thanks for posting the correction! It's good she's not gone for good. I did some more searching and turns out she actually replied to someone personally that the whole leaving thing was a fan rumor but she would be low key for awhile (yeah, how is that a change, lol?) *and* they are hoping some of Bonnie's family members will be returning in future. Hmm ...

I think "diversity" for the sake of diversity is corny, placating, imposed, fake and borderline condescending. The soaps hardly ever get it right, and this late in the game, I doubt they ever will. In order for 'minority' characters to be more than plastic tokens, they can't be viewed as minorities (which means all the over-analyzing needs to cease.) Additionally, you need people of color behind the scenes in creative positions, and from what I can tell, that isn't the case with any of the soaps still on the air. You basically have white writers who're either too clueless, idealistic or unenthused about writing for 'minority' characters in amongst the others. Furthermore, I think complaining viewers contribute to it. The minute a 'minority' character is written in an unfavorable/unwinning way (or an actor of color has behind the scenes drama with the higher ups) people start screaming conspiracy theories all over the place. With 'minority' characters...

• They can't be too negative or villain-y...
  • They can't be too put-upon or tragic...
  • They can't date other black characters because that's keeping them "isolated," but if they date interracially then some see it as them being put up for validation from a great white hope (and Lord forbid if they lose in an interracial love triangle) ...

  [*]If they neck roll, aggressively get in peoples faces or drop a slang phrase, that's too stereotypical...but then if they're too wholesome, polite or upper crust, then they're "not black enough."

That's too many contradictions, and it's probably easier for soap writers to stick with their tried and true than it is to introduce 'minority' characters and have them scrutinized in ways that no soap character ought to be. Basically they have to be quasi-political figureheads posed as soap characters and just a little more real than the rest of the fictional canvas, which is bullshit. On OLTL, I adored Evangeline, but I think her rabid, paranoid, selfish and quick-to-call-TPTB-racists fanbase contributed to the demise of the character and the actresses ultimate exit. As someone else said, white characters don't get these kind of stringent expectations placed on them. They can act up all over the place and represent every tired stereotype or cliche, and by and large no one complains about them not representing a suitable, truthful, or politically/socially correct enough image. I don't impose social politics on something as silly as a daytime drama. I want the characters to be campy, gluttonous, salacious, flawed and/or evil. Quite frankly, I don't need and am not bent on proper examples, political correctness or a rainbow coalition.

Edited October 8, 200916 yr by ACEM

Doug Marland did introduce an American Indian character on the show and I think her story dealt in some way with land rights.I hope someone who watched the show closely will remember.I'm thinking the character(or actress's) name was Leslie.I think there was some connection to Lyla and Cal.

Now that I've done some research,the actress/character I'm referring to is Kimberly Norris as Simone Bordeau

I think "diversity" for the sake of diversity is corny, placating, imposed, fake and borderline condescending. The soaps hardly ever get it right, and this late in the game, I doubt they ever will. In order for 'minority' characters to be more than plastic tokens, they can't be viewed as minorities (which means all the over-analyzing needs to cease.) Additionally, you need people of color behind the scenes in creative positions, and from what I can tell, that isn't the case with any of the soaps still on the air. You basically have white writers who're either too clueless, idealistic or unenthused about writing for 'minority' characters in amongst the others. Furthermore, I think complaining viewers contribute to it. The minute a 'minority' character is written in an unfavorable/unwinning way (or an actor of color has behind the scenes drama with the higher ups) people start screaming conspiracy theories all over the place. With 'minority' characters...

• They can't be too negative or villain-y...
  • They can't be too put-upon or tragic...
  • They can't date other black characters because that's keeping them "isolated," but if they date interracially then some see it as them being put up for validation from a great white hope (and Lord forbid if they lose lose in an interracial love triangle) ...

  [*]If they neck roll, aggressively get in peoples faces or drop a slang phrase, that's too stereotypical...but then if they're too wholesome, polite or upper crust, then they're "not black enough."

That's too many contradictions, and it's probably easier for soap writers to stick with their tried and true than it is to introduce 'minority' characters and have them scrutinized in ways that no soap character ought to be. Basically they have to be quasi-political figureheads posed as soap characters and just a little more real than the rest of the fictional canvas, which is bullshit. On OLTL, I adored Evangeline, but I think her rabid, paranoid, selfish and quick-to-call-TPTB-racists fanbase contributed to the demise of the character and the actresses ultimate exit. As someone else said, white characters don't get these kind of stringent expectations placed on them. They can act up all over the place and represent every tired stereotype or cliche, and by and large no one complains about them not representing a suitable, truthful, or politically/socially correct enough image. I don't impose social politics on something as silly as a daytime drama. I want the characters to be campy, gluttonous, salacious, flawed and/or evil. Quite frankly, I don't need and am not bent on proper examples, political correctness or a rainbow coalition.

Best post of all!

I think "diversity" for the sake of diversity is corny, placating, imposed, fake and borderline condescending. The soaps hardly ever get it right, and this late in the game, I doubt they ever will. In order for 'minority' characters to be more than plastic tokens, they can't be viewed as minorities (which means all the over-analyzing needs to cease.) Additionally, you need people of color behind the scenes in creative positions, and from what I can tell, that isn't the case with any of the soaps still on the air. You basically have white writers who're either too clueless, idealistic or unenthused about writing for 'minority' characters in amongst the others. Furthermore, I think complaining viewers contribute to it. The minute a 'minority' character is written in an unfavorable/unwinning way (or an actor of color has behind the scenes drama with the higher ups) people start screaming conspiracy theories all over the place. With 'minority' characters...

• They can't be too negative or villain-y...
  • They can't be too put-upon or tragic...
  • They can't date other black characters because that's keeping them "isolated," but if they date interracially then some see it as them being put up for validation from a great white hope (and Lord forbid if they lose lose in an interracial love triangle) ...

  [*]If they neck roll, aggressively get in peoples faces or drop a slang phrase, that's too stereotypical...but then if they're too wholesome, polite or upper crust, then they're "not black enough."

That's too many contradictions, and it's probably easier for soap writers to stick with their tried and true than it is to introduce 'minority' characters and have them scrutinized in ways that no soap character ought to be.

Writers write for the world in which they live. I think some people such as a Bill Bell and Agnes Nixon had the good sense to get the input of the actors portraying the characters and incorporate a portion of their lives into to the shows. Unfortunately no actor of color on a soap has ever been compensated. Which is why I disagree when people talk to OLTL's track record being among the best. That just simply isn't the case. WHat's worked on the show's behalf is their ability to retell their history and give it a more flattering light- the "color blind treatment". Which I noticed comes in handy whenever networks find it necessary. (I'm dying to hear why TS has chosen to stay "too busy" to return.)

I think we generally still think of racism as a kind of "crime", or at least a great moral failing, and fail to see how racism is the backdrop to our society. In not talking about it, the writers are simply making the exact statement as talking about it in a stereotypical light. Diversity for diversity sake is merely a way to hide from the accusations. They seem to be looking for a safe way to avoid committing these crimes and have instead opted for segregation. "Of course we're not racist! We have Layla."

For those of us not interested in seeing proper examples tuned into Passions, only to find the s/ls disastrous and silly. What I do notice is that politically incorrect characters are allowed to take off when portrayed by an above average actor. People forget that REG- a day player- managed to turn a villainess modern day Johnnie Cochran into a viable dramatic love interest. RJ excited us to no end, and on some days managed to make us laugh. We complain about the white characters and their writing, tptb just listen more closely to the feedback on minority characters in fear of committing the great crime. These problems with writing could end if they start getting honest and start admitting that they don't know what they are doing, they have no idea, and stop pretending to be writing for everyone. This is why no modern day built AA family will ever work, and the rebuilding of old families are just as doomed. MAB- among others- are just too caught up in their glory to admit they can't write for the entire show.

If it was that much of a burden for soap producers to bring in black characters, if viewers were that unforgiving, then Y&R never would have had any success with black characters. Malcolm and Dru and Neil and Olivia could have all been dismissed as stereotypes. Instead, they were very popular with black viewers, as well as a lot of white viewers, for long periods of time.

I don't believe that REG's fanbase caused her demise. I think she wanted more money than the show was willing to provide.

It's always easy to justify the cowardice of soap producers by saying they just don't have any choice because the soap fans will never give them a chance.

I would only believe that if minority characters had NEVER fit in on soaps. Instead, they did fit in, only to be systematically shunned over the last 10-15 years, along with people over 40, and strong female characters.

Besides, it's not like there aren't very vocal, always unhappy fan bases for white actors and couples.

I'm sorry, but with two middle aged white men as the brains behind HBO's The Corner and The Wire, these soap folks have no excuse. Along with a predominantly white team behind the scenes, David Simon and Ed Burns produced shows praised by black audiences for their gritty authenticity. It's been said that the only unrealistic thing about the Baltimore we see in The Wire is the fact that everybody isn't watching The Wire. But these men worked in the trenches, they lived the life they wrote about in their shows. They're not black men from Baltimore, but they were cops, reporters, community activists, and what they didn't know, they reached out and found out. And did I mention that white people just LOVE this show? It's not like white viewers aren't interested in people who don't look like them. It's definitely a show for who Marlena/Connie would call "thinking fans", and wouldn't we all like to think again? But I guess nobody in soaps knows black people? Nobody in soaps wants to hire people who know black people? Nobody in soaps wants to hire black people? I mean what is REALLY going on here? Point blank, if they were interested, it would be reflected on screen. They simply do not care, and until I'm proven wrong by my TV screen, I won't be convinced otherwise.

I use black people as my example here, but you could switch "black" out for any other marginal group. I wonder if networks are afraid of hiring black EPs and HWs, afraid that they'll "blackwash" their daytime lineups. I mean, look at the producing/writing team over at One Life, Fish/Kyle/Nick ain't no coincidence folks. HELLO?

The problem with Evangeline was they almost immediately strayed from what the character was introduced as - she came on defending Mitch Laurence and dating RJ, and I had high hopes for her. But as ACEM said, she was quickly made into the stock black soap character who didn't have much personality (leading to her turning on RJ) so as not to offend white execs. And while her fanbase liked to bring Mitch up later on to claim she was "full of different facets," you could never dare suggest to them that this made her a morally questionable person...you know, like everyone else on a soap opera?

From there it was a long downhill slope watching her, at least for me. Yes, she had frontburner story and was paired interracially, and that's to be commended on a surface level, but the character was so milquetoast and the writers seemed to doggedly refuse to give her any layers beyond "prom queen," even when Goldsberry complained about the character's behavior. No matter who the character is, fans will turn on them if they are overexposed or too perfect. Evangeline was both, at least IMO. She always had to be good, right, the most desirable, and that is a death sentence for story. At the time, it was like a soap other than Y&R had finally realized how to put a character of color on the frontburner, but they'd picked the wrong one and/or neutered her to make up for it. There was a world of difference between an Evangeline and a Drucilla. Eva simply does not compare. Say what you will about Rachel Gannon, but she has layers and history, good and bad - she even killed someone and did time. That's drama up the wazoo and this time, OLTL has not shied away from it. It doesn't surprise me Van has not returned, because it's like, what do you write for Miss America? She's not the first soap princess to suddenly find herself out of favor when the writing changes. See: Christine on Y&R, Courtney on GH, etc etc.

Edited October 8, 200916 yr by Vee

I don't believe that REG's fanbase caused her demise. I think she wanted more money than the show was willing to provide.

I don't think it was about money she was outshining al lthe white actress they wanted to showcvase like Natalie, Blair, & Jessica. & they wanted to keep her in a dead end relationship with Cris. I still couldn't believe they put her there.