With the Forresters the problem was an overload of Stephanie, Ridge and Brooke. Their stories got more and more ridiculous and went in circles. The show had problems writing for other Forrester's and for years it seemed they couldn't introduce interesting new characters, despite having some good actors in place. Now they have characters like Felicia and Thorne, who we aren't burnt out on, but they aren't utilized. The Logan's are definitely on overload and I'm not sure these families are well connected. I often find the Jackie M drama to be like a different show.

So it's both brilliant and awful, but at the end of the day it needs saving?

Yes. The show is entertaining, well written and well produced, but the long story doesn't work. Look at Jackie and Owen. Finally they found something that clicks for Owen, so you have another viable young lead. It's been years since Jackie has been relevant, so this is good for her as well. Then I look at all the obstacles instantly thrown at them, the cheating with Whip, the twin and now Steffy. That stuff is dragging the couple down. And with the Forrester takeover, like I mentioned before, great idea, but the execution is underwhelming.

My overall point is that the show has a lot of potential, but it's rarely realized. Right now they have the strongest cast they've had in years. They've been spreading the screentime out, not perfectly, but they're making an effort. The scripts and overall production remain consistent enough that viewers will stick around because it's familiar. I won't lie and say I even remember what happened today, but while I watch I'm entertained. I guess that counts for something. So to answer you question, yes I do think the show is both brilliant and awful!

With the Forresters the problem was an overload of Stephanie, Ridge and Brooke. Their stories got more and more ridiculous and went in circles. The show had problems writing for other Forrester's and for years it seemed they couldn't introduce interesting new characters, despite having some good actors in place. Now they have characters like Felicia and Thorne, who we aren't burnt out on, but they aren't utilized. The Logan's are definitely on overload and I'm not sure these families are well connected. I often find the Jackie M drama to be like a different show.

So, again, both families were on overload. Before we had the Forresters, now it's the Logans.

It's deeply frustrating to me, but it seems overload is the only thing this show can do in that respect.

And spot on about Jackie!

Yes. The show is entertaining, well written and well produced, but the long story doesn't work.

That's a full-force contradictio in terminis. How can something be well-written and not working at the same time? I mean, I know what you're pointing at, but you kind of put it clumsily.

Look at Jackie and Owen. Finally they found something that clicks for Owen, so you have another viable young lead. It's been years since Jackie has been relevant, so this is good for her as well. Then I look at all the obstacles instantly thrown at them, the cheating with Whip, the twin and now Steffy. That stuff is dragging the couple down. And with the Forrester takeover, like I mentioned before, great idea, but the execution is underwhelming.

Jackie & Owen is CR*P. Awwwful. Jackie needs to go ASAP and Owen put in a hot triangle with some other people. Don't know yet who.

My overall point is that the show has a lot of potential, but it's rarely realized. Right now they have the strongest cast they've had in years. They've been spreading the screentime out, not perfectly, but they're making an effort. The scripts and overall production remain consistent enough that viewers will stick around because it's familiar. I won't lie and say I even remember what happened today, but while I watch I'm entertained. I guess that counts for something. So to answer you question, yes I do think the show is both brilliant and awful!

It always had potential. Always. That's the problem with this show in the past 10-15 years, something like that. It's not a 2009 thing.

This is B&B signature: while being extreme cr*p, it managed to keep the viewers and maintain the fixability. While that kind of can't be said for, say, GH. How can you revamp that show when you need to get rid of the mob to do that but the mob is that show? Can't be done.

I think that was Jack Wagner's best performance on B&B.

I think that was Jack Wagner's best performance on B&B.

Yes, that was a really good scene. It's been awhile since we had a simple, well written, well acted moment like that on the show. No music, no histrionics. Jack Wagner was great. And Ashley Jones was good, too.

I'm still not digging the Forrester Creations/Spencer/Logan Sistas storyline. Since it's all about Bill and the Logans, neither one that I can possibly root for, I can care less. Even if they give the Forresters token time in the story, it never really feels like it's about them. I don't like that the Logans are pretty much the core family of the show nowadays.

I enjoy the campy Donna/Pam scenes. The Catwalk stuff was fun, even if Pam has detoured into buffoon territory. I'd take Buffoon Pam over Crazy Pam or Bill and the Logan Sistas any day.

What's up with the show now having that two commercials only break after the first segment? I keep having to rewind my DVR because in one second the show is already back on.

Edited October 30, 200916 yr by crc

That's a full-force contradictio in terminis. How can something be well-written and not working at the same time? I mean, I know what you're pointing at, but you kind of put it clumsily.

It's just like how people praise GH for it's well written scripts, yet despise the HW. Brad Bell has tons of interesting ideas he's always too afraid to follow through on. Still, however despite the lack of compelling long story, I do think the writers make it interesting on a day-to-day basis. They make the most of the 18 minutes and it flies by and always feels like B&B. I truly believe if you stopped watching 10 or 15 years ago and tuned in, it would feel like the same show. If you did that with AMC or OLTL you wouldn't recognize the show.

It always had potential. Always. That's the problem with this show in the past 10-15 years, something like that. It's not a 2009 thing.

I agree, but I think after 2002 or 2003, the show went into a huge slump. I had never seen the show that unwatchable and it stayed that way until they brought back the Logan's. I've always hoped B&B would suddenly become the best soap on TV. I feel it's possible and that it will happen, especially with the Emmy win. Maybe I'm an idiot for hoping considering all the squandered potential.

So, again, both families were on overload. Before we had the Forresters, now it's the Logans.

It's deeply frustrating to me, but it seems overload is the only thing this show can do in that respect.

Maybe I shouldn't say Logan overload. Maybe it's just Donna/Katie overload. The show has a strong family in the Logan's, but what are Beth (poorly cast), Stephen (could be paired with any female on this show!) and Brooke doing? Nothing. It's the same as when the Forrester's were in power. They burn us out on certain characters and waste others, even thought all we're hearing is "Forrester" or now "Logan!!" Maybe I need to think about B&B more to understand all of this. It's all so confusing and full of contradictions. When I think about it I get frustrated and my head hurts. That's why I just watch, giggle and rarely post about the show. I guess I just have a little Brooke Logan in me. I can justify anything due to my love for B&B.

I still think they made a mistake killing off Storm.

And giving Donna any major storyline.

It's just like how people praise GH for it's well written scripts, yet despise the HW. Brad Bell has tons of interesting ideas he's always too afraid to follow through on. Still, however despite the lack of compelling long story, I do think the writers make it interesting on a day-to-day basis. They make the most of the 18 minutes and it flies by and always feels like B&B. I truly believe if you stopped watching 10 or 15 years ago and tuned in, it would feel like the same show. If you did that with AMC or OLTL you wouldn't recognize the show.

I completely agree with everything you said.

I agree, but I think after 2002 or 2003, the show went into a huge slump. I had never seen the show that unwatchable and it stayed that way until they brought back the Logan's. I've always hoped B&B would suddenly become the best soap on TV. I feel it's possible and that it will happen, especially with the Emmy win. Maybe I'm an idiot for hoping considering all the squandered potential.

Oh, I did too! I'm so glad to see someone else had the same idea/wish! I feel the same about GH.

Maybe I shouldn't say Logan overload. Maybe it's just Donna/Katie overload. The show has a strong family in the Logan's, but what are Beth (poorly cast), Stephen (could be paired with any female on this show!) and Brooke doing? Nothing. It's the same as when the Forrester's were in power. They burn us out on certain characters and waste others, even thought all we're hearing is "Forrester" or now "Logan!!" Maybe I need to think about B&B more to understand all of this. It's all so confusing and full of contradictions. When I think about it I get frustrated and my head hurts. That's why I just watch, giggle and rarely post about the show. I guess I just have a little Brooke Logan in me. I can justify anything due to my love for B&B.

I still think they made a mistake killing off Storm.

What could have been.... *sigh*

I dont know about you guys but I love the twist that Katie is CEO. Its a needed change for now

LMAO at Donna and Pam. Those two are gold together, no matter how ridiculous the situation. Donna's always wanted to be a talk show host? Um whatever. At least Pam was there to keep things comical.

The show is entertaining, well written and well produced, but the long story doesn't work.

I couldn't agree more. I mentioned the same in a post earlier this week and Sylph asked me the same question. The show looks like great soap, it often sounds like great soap, it feels like B&B but you have trouble investing in anything because, well, there's missing sth.

I couldn't agree more. I mentioned the same in a post earlier this week and Sylph asked me the same question. The show looks like great soap, it often sounds like great soap, it feels like B&B but you have trouble investing in anything because, well, there's missing sth.

Sheila, where are you?! Is your lawyer job keeping you so busy? Or does that belong to those Ibiza & Barcelona vacations?

RE: your post... I love the ambiguity of the soap world.

Not too long ago LoyaltoAMC posted how people laughed uncontrolably at the trainwreck cr?p that B&B is waiting for a medical exam and now... Now people call it a great soap. It's both, I guess. It's often in the middle, and then it's not, it's either trash or great.

Edited November 1, 200916 yr by Sylph

B&B is like the modern day Falcon Crest. That was a beautiful soap with a concept that had potential pouring out of it. They did a great job with casting, it was so soapy with all those old Hollywood stars. Then you watch it and it's pure popcorn TV. Not as incomprehensible as Dynasty (which was largely garbage), but very plot driven. We had endless long lost relatives who'd be major characters for half a season, then forgotten forever. Even main characters. Endless character deaths that were quickly forgotten. Plane crashes, earthquakes, etc. Like B&B it somehow worked. I always hoped that the show would take advantage of the concept and execute a more character driven show that lived up to it's potential. It actually did for it's final season, which fans hated because they were so used to it's fluffy nature. B&B will have similar problems when it finally realizes it's potential. Thankfully it's not on the cancellation block because I don't think they could convince new viewers that the show was suddenly amazing. And I'm sure some current fans will complain if they finally find strong love interests for Brooke and Ridge that aren't each other.

I think the problem with B&B is they had a winning formula for years but they never moved past that formula. The potential was there, about eight, nine, ten years ago, but they never fully committed. I don't think Taylor works anymore. They never should have brought her back. Ridge/Brooke/Taylor doesn't work anymore. Stephanie obsessing over Ridge. Eric perving over younger women. And they seem to struggle to commit to bringing new characters in; they especially struggle with writing for the kids of the established characters.

It's always like one foot stuck in the past, more and more numb, and the other shaky, trembling in the present.

Edited November 1, 200916 yr by CarlD2

I think the problem with B&B is they had a winning formula for years but they never moved past that formula. The potential was there, about eight, nine, ten years ago, but they never fully committed. I don't think Taylor works anymore. They never should have brought her back. Ridge/Brooke/Taylor doesn't work anymore. Stephanie obsessing over Ridge. Eric perving over younger women. And they seem to struggle to commit to bringing new characters in; they especially struggle with writing for the kids of the established characters.

It's always like one foot stuck in the past, more and more numb, and the other shaky, trembling in the present.

All very true.