Guiding Light Discussion Thread

[DRW50]

 

@slick jones This March 1980 episode seems to have another role for Dominic Chianese, unless this is the "Earl Johnson [date unknown]"

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For anyone who doesn't want to go through each individual "The Chase" Roger/Holly clip, someone put them all together here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCtEV-hj89E

Edited November 1, 2023 by DRW50

[Mitch64]

I think that I am the only person who likes Keifer of the previous actress. I thought SS played Blake over the top and campy, and didn't really find her that sexy..no offense, but she always seemed like a big strapping girl especially next to skinny little AM...(my favorite Alex lines..."And Alan Michael can you pick that MOOSE off the floor!") 

I think the problem was that "BLOSS" took over...Ross and Blake should never have been end game...and the writers took away all of Blake's agency..she didn't have a job, (I remember episodes of her just having out at that ugly diner...) and then she was saddled with that "Jelly of Amanda, so I get drunk and screw the guy I used to think was my older brother" and the bad twins storyline and from then on out, even with Ben, she was tied down. 

I think Keifer did well as a woman who tried to get over her f*cked up childhood but kept making mistakes. They could have developed that more with her trying to be a mom to her kids unlike her own mother, and like everyone, not doing as well as she thinks she should...but they just kind of made Blake a flighty eccentric nobody. 

[Contessa Donatella]

Very nicely said, well thought out. She's my favorite Blake, too. I thought I was alone! I also got to know her a bit as a person & she is an incredibly interesting, neat, kind, smart, etc. person in real life. 

And I just picked this up on IG. I know not everyone did, but I loved the Marvel crossover! Shout out to Beth Ehlers & Shawn Reeves (Costume Designer) who both were great with it & really did it justice!! 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzFvWfSskC8/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[Fevuh]

I know I'm in the minority, but I liked the twins from 2 fathers storyline.  And they should have told it, and left it alone.  I think in the end it turned out not to be true?  Because Annie switched tests or something?  Which - I don't even remember a motive for Annie to do such a thing.  

Maybe my memory isn't correct, but I thought the curly haired Frederick should have remained Rick's child, and the other one Ross's son.  

[Mitch64]

I could have gone with it, but they needed to play all the beats which they were not willing to do. McTavish played it as a comedy at first..(ha, ha..I just slept with my stepsister who is now married to my Dad's best friend, and who is a surrogate uncle to me..ha..ha..) and gave MOL the chance to work his worst tendencies in acting..mugging or being overbearing. They also needed Ed and Roger and Holly to be involved more and to bring up their own history. I would have played it that Rick felt real morose for what he did, and for Blake to be Blake and write it off as a mistake until she found out the pregnancy thing...then to rope Roger and Holly into switching the tests to make it look like Ross's kids.  Roger would be disgusted that his grandkid was going to be a Bauer, Holly would warn Blake about the mistake of lying to men about their child...but then do it after Blake pulls the guilt card.  So Rick would move on not knowing (with Abby or someone else.) and then somehow finds out, tells Ed about it, but they resolve to let Ross and Blake continue on as the parents until the [!@#$%^&*] really hits the fan and everyone knows. Ross would be angry at the two most important people in his life Blake AND Ed, Ross would fall into someone else's arms (I would bring back Hope Bauer for this)  Blake would fall into someone's arms (soap people can't solve a problem unless they screw someone) I would make that Matt..(just cause I would love to piss off the Blossies AND the Mattresses) Roger would be determined that Rick would have nothing to do with his grandkid...Holly and Fletcher would have issues that she was conspiring with Roger still.  The eventual solution would be for Rick to let Ross raise both kids as his own, but it would always hang out there..until they are SORASED .

Yea, they had it that Annie switched the tests but it was a retro write. ..Annie would have no reason at the time to do that, she was as shocked as Blake and why would Annie want to hurt Rick anyway. Sloppy. 

 

No..the show was so screwy at that time the curly haired kid was Ross!

[Mitch64]

Hated that dumb ass episode...just so Davey could stroke one to Ehlers abs!! 

[GL Oldtimer]

Donna L. Bridges, thank you for the information regarding the petition to award a Posthumous Lifetime Achievement Award to Beverlee McKinsey. I have added my support to it.

Mitch64, you make some interesting points about how Bloss took over the character of Blake. I never looked at it like that, but I agree with you.

I do like both Keifer and Stringfield in the roles. I can't really say that I have a favorite, but I just noticed in revisiting the episodes from the early 90s how much different the character is from Stringfield to Keifer.

For those of you that are in the know about these things, what was the overall reception from Guiding Light fans to the pairing of Fletcher and Holly? As a huge Roger and Holly fan, I still find it hard to rewatch the episodes of Roger and Holly's breakup and Fletcher and Holly's pairing. Nearly 30 years later it still bothers me :). 

Annette

Edited November 1, 2023 by GL Oldtimer

[Mitch64]

I HATED Folly, but I really didn't like Jay Hammer and they tried to shoehorn Fletcher with every diva and I felt it didn't work. He did have nice friends chem with Zimmer in the early years but that was about it.  However, I didn't like Roger and Holly "together" he raped her and abused her. They should have always been in each others lives as they share a history, daughter, grandchildren a dangerous attraction, but not as a couple. But then, I never felt Jeva was healthy either. 

Hammer used to walk all over Garrets lines..and he just became almost as insufferable to me as Deas/Buzz. I do think they had fans but really, the chairs in Company probably had some wacko fan base.

[Contessa Donatella]

That's true. They did seem to "try out" Fletcher with any adult female, didn't they? 

I completely agree about Roger & Holly. Besides raping her & abusing her, she was afraid of him not only physically but emotion ally & also because I think she was afraid of what he might pull in regards to "Chrissy". Fans confuse me who try to ship them. They can be a DUO not a COUPLE. Related to each other in stories, having to deal with each other in life dealings but not romantic. And, fan base for the chairs in Company, too too funny! I can just see it now ... Company's Chairs Consorting with Chaise Lounge!

You are so very welcome. Thank you so much for signing! Today we are at 1145 signatures. Be sure & see her "City Lights" interview https://youtu.be/Kewy_6Con0o

[GL Oldtimer]

I totally get why some Guiding Light viewers didn't like the pairing of Roger and Holly as a romantic couple or understand fans that enjoyed them together.

For me, I think it helped that I didn't watch the show in the 70s when the rape and abuse happened. I imagine if I had, I wouldn't have wanted them together.

It wasn't just the chemistry between the two actors or the attraction between the characters that sold me on them as a couple when both characters returned to Springfield in the late 80s, it was the vulnerability that Roger had when he was around Holly that I really liked. He wore his heart on his sleeve around her and while his feelings for her certainly didn't keep him from lying to her, I do think he felt bad when he did lie to her. It was an interesting dimension to his character, a contrast between good and evil. It's what made him more than just a cookie cutter soap villain. It's also what allowed me to feel sympathetic toward him. That was a feat considering all of the lives he tried to ruin.

When things were good between them, they were so good. The characters had a nice maturity about them and they had some great scenes in 1994 when they were working through some things regarding communication and trust. I think there was a relatability about them during that time. 

I think it also helped that I'm a big fan of both of the actors. Maureen Garrett and Michael Zaslow were my favorites on the show so seeing their characters together was the icing on the cake during the time that I originally watched the program.

Like every soap couple, I knew they weren't going to last.  But the way the writers handled their breakup still gets to me, especially since Holly went back to hating Roger, despite how far they had come as a couple. As a fan, it was hard to watch it all unravel, and the chance for them to rekindle their relationship or at least get back to a better place ended when Michael Zaslow was pushed off the show. I feel like their journey together as a couple was accompanied by a lot of missed opportunities and premature endings.

Annette

Edited November 8, 2023 by GL Oldtimer

[Mitch64]

1994 was the year it all started to fall apart (both for the show and for Roger and Holly...) I really hated how they put them together as a couple, even living in Hollybend together...yes, they got past a lot of stuff, but not to the point of being in relationship. It just screwed over all the years that GL built showing that Roger did indeed rape Holly, and while he regrets it, that changed their whole dynamic for ever and it can never be forgotten. Plus, they were boring.... And yes, it was just as ridiculous they way they broke them up...all of a sudden she screws annoying Fletcher on her desk and its all about him. 

Roger and Holly were the ultimate soap couple that could never be apart, yet never be together. If it wasn't for that one decision Roger made, they MIGHT have stood a chance, and that regret would haunt Roger and make him who he was, and the same with Holly. Again, I love them thrown into each others orbits, sometimes conspiring together and sometimes against each other. The twins was the perfect time to do that, with Holly getting Roger to switch the paternity results to name Ross as the father to both, and that secret binding them.  But then McTavish went nuts and put them back to square one, with Roger being EVIL and Holly hating him (and being very self righteous about it.) 

[j swift]

@Mitch64's post made me wonder if Holly was a victim of being written by too many regimes for disparate purposes.  Holly and Roger could've been my favorite type of soap couple, two outcasts that bond together and help each other in their sociopathic schemes.  After all, Holly began as a spoiled rich girl, and that was a key component of her character until she became more of a brat.  Then, I suppose, Rita takes over the role of sexy schemer, and Holly is given less agency after becoming a mother.  Much later, Holly returns with wealth and a bit of bite, but she never really returns to the characteristic narcissism of her youth, perhaps because Blake had taken on that role.  So, as charming and watchable was the actress was, Holly evolved in ways that never seemed organic to the origins of the character, based on whatever was needed for the rest of the cast at any particular time.

In the end, when Ed finally frees her from that frumpy apartment, I was just thankful that she was finally able to fly the coup.

Edited November 11, 2023 by j swift

[Contessa Donatella]

Just curious have you now seen the rape? 

And for the record, I could not admire anyone any more than I do these 2 actors. 

[kalbir]

@GL Oldtimer @Mitch64 Your observations on Roger/Holly are totally spot on.

Even though Roger/Holly should not have been together romantically, there were always hints of something brewing between them. That's why it was so wrong yet so right to root for them. I remember someone on this board once described them as the anti-supercouple and that description fits them perfectly.

MG herself said that she and MZ connected right away as actors. Clearly the writers and the audience saw that connection too. It's too bad that none of the Roger/Holly storylines of 1976-1978 have surfaced AFAIK. Whenever any 1979 and 1980 episodes featuring Roger/Holly surface, those episodes are a treat to watch because they set everything in motion for what we saw a decade later.

[Soaplovers]

I always thought the time that Roger/Holly slept together in mid 1993 after the cliffhouse story was the start of the end in terms of good storytelling for the two of them.  

I think Megan McTavish had said when she took over that she didn't understand why they were a couple again especially after the way he had raped her, kidnapped her, and dragged her through Santa Domingo.  So I understood her reasoning as to why they split them up as a couple... but the execution was wrong.

It would have been better if Holly saw Roger yelling at someone.. and it triggered her memories of what happened between them in 1979/1980.  She then realized she still had a lot to deal with and pulled away from him... which made him feel the impulse to keep pursuing her.  

Eventually they could have come to a place where they couldn't be a couple.. that the past really couldn't be forgotten and then the two co-existed in Springfield in separate stories/couplings.. but would come together if Blake had a crisis, etc.