11 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

LOL - I thought the same thing. Not to mention just a week ago, Blake was falsifying her passport to help get Cassie out of the country and they were both about to get arrested LOL. Hello, Cassie! I actually just looked it up and you could get up to 25 years in prison for that. I know 1999 was a long time ago now (ugh), but I bet it was still pretty bad.

Cassie was never one of the bright bulbs of Springfield, but did she never listen to Springfield gossip either? Lol. And it always annoyed me when characters said, "I can't imagine how you feel", after some catastrophe. Because usually, about six months before, they went through nearly the exact same situation. LOL.

17 hours ago, P.J. said:

I think of Nadine as who Reva might've been if Reva hadn't gotten the supreme break of marrying money and bewitching the Lewis men. I wouldn't call Nadine smart, but she had enough insight into behaviors to understand how to manipulate her kids and Billy.

I also believe that it's possible they were trying to create another Reva because they knew Zimmer was probably going to leave at the end of her next contract.

We make fun of Josh and to a lesser extent RN, but Reva would have never worked without Josh. The backstory, the star-crossed love--that's what made Reva bearable. You look at her early scenes and they're kind of like nails on a chalkboard. She was basically a cliche. But once it became about her and Josh, she became a real person. She rode that even after RN left the show for the first time.

Nadine didn't have that. She came across as a really awful person who ditched her kids and came back only because one was moving up the social ladder. She helped to make Harley's behavior more understanable, but for herself, I could detect nothing.

I liked Jean. She had a lot of presence and sparkle and she could be funny, too. They just never found a way to write Nadine to give her some depth. If you're going for creating a long-term character, you really have to do that. Some characters they go too far (I would say that happened with Blake, going from delicious manipulator to dull housewife) but you have to find the balance.

Any time I think about Nadine/Jean, I just think back to Megan McTavish's "memoir" and how (allegedly), Jean went to Megan asking for more story and Megan just thought "Nah, you're annoying, I'm just going to kill you" (paraphrasing). So funny LOL - I felt bad for Jean though.

That damn memoir is what got me to start watching GL last year, so I'll give it that

Every once in awhile, you would be reminded that Nadine had abandoned both Frank and Harley thus putting Frank in the position of parent to Harley. One particular conversation was Christmas 1992 where Frank goes to visit Nadine whose happily hosting Christmas for Billy's family and she happily tries to invite Frank to stay.. and he lays into her for abandoning him and Harley.

Ironically mid 1993 to mid 1995 was probably the only time where the show does actually try to give Nadine more layers... and seeing how Buzz basically strings her along gives the viewer a bit of insight into what caused Nadine to become the person she became after he was believed 'dead' in Vietnam.

1 hour ago, alwaysAMC said:

Any time I think about Nadine/Jean, I just think back to Megan McTavish's "memoir" and how (allegedly), Jean went to Megan asking for more story and Megan just thought "Nah, you're annoying, I'm just going to kill you" (paraphrasing). So funny LOL - I felt bad for Jean though.

I think Megan McTavish is giving herself to much credit. I truly believe that Jean Carol's exit was due to Kim Zimmer rejoining the show. Once they made the decision to pair Reva & Buzz together, there was no place for Nadine. As Reva would take over as the love interest for Buzz, and working in the diner.

Though I thought Soap Opera Digest had a brilliant idea of Nadine coming back. She stumbles back into the diner and says "I was kidnapped by aliens, and held hostage in a UFO!" - that would be brilliant plotline, and the storyline possibilities of Nadine trying to convince people she was kidnapped by aliens would be endless.

It is a real-life situation as there are thousands of people who claim to this day, they were kidnapped by aliens.

16 minutes ago, TheyStartedOnSoaps said:

I think Megan McTavish is giving herself to much credit. I truly believe that Jean Carol's exit was due to Kim Zimmer rejoining the show. Once they made the decision to pair Reva & Buzz together, there was no place for Nadine. As Reva would take over as the love interest for Buzz, and working in the diner.

Nadine/Buzz had never really been treated as a proper pairing so I don't think the show saw her as in the way. If anything, Nadine could have just returned to scheming against Buzz and his latest true love as she did with Jenna.

Nadine had barely had any story of her own for two years before being killed off. At the time Jean Carol spoke about how little she'd had to do and that she was going to leave if she didn't get a storyline.

Regarding Nadine being brought in as the new Reva - I can't see that, mostly because Pam Long, I believe, brought her in, and to Pam Long, there was only one Reva. Reva was heavy on the canvas from very early on with extensive backstory and motivation, whereas I think Nadine was mostly carried by Jean Carol and served the plot.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by DRW50

I haven't seen a lot of Nadine, but for some reason I see her as a mix of early Opal Gardner and Nola Reardon (if she had ended up marrying someone like Floyd Parker).

On 5/28/2026 at 1:56 PM, Soaplovers said:

A story element that survived in the late 90s and 00s after Billy left prison and would always give advice to Vanessa in the same way that Vanessa would give advice to Ross. My favorite Billy and Vanessa post marriage talk was when Vanessa wouldn't tell the police where Dinah

Ironically enough, Vanessa spent a fair amount of time in their first marriage telling Billy that he needed to stop fixing things for Mindy, to varying degrees of success. I do appreciate that after Jordan returned, the show didn't play any kind of acrimony between Billy and Vanessa. Sure, it was probably mostly due to circumstance, but it made the reconciliation at the end possible.

2 hours ago, DeeVee said:

I also believe that it's possible they were trying to create another Reva because they knew Zimmer was probably going to leave at the end of her next contract.

We make fun of Josh and to a lesser extent RN, but Reva would have never worked without Josh. The backstory, the star-crossed love--that's what made Reva bearable. You look at her early scenes and they're kind of like nails on a chalkboard. She was basically a cliche. But once it became about her and Josh, she became a real person. She rode that even after RN left the show for the first time.

Nadine didn't have that. She came across as a really awful person who ditched her kids and came back only because one was moving up the social ladder. She helped to make Harley's behavior more understanable, but for herself, I could detect nothing.

I liked Jean. She had a lot of presence and sparkle and she could be funny, too. They just never found a way to write Nadine to give her some depth. If you're going for creating a long-term character, you really have to do that. Some characters they go too far (I would say that happened with Blake, going from delicious manipulator to dull housewife) but you have to find the balance.

RN does deserve a lot of credit for their popularity. I'm fairly certain Reva would've been a memorable character, simply because Long just poured story into her. But as iconic without "Always, Bud"? Eh....

In some ways, Nadine is hamstrung by Harley and Frank and her abandonment of them. It was easier to soften Reva before she had kids. Nadine was older, and had been gone from her kids' lives for like fifteen years. I don't know if Long and later Curlee thought it was too big a hurdle, or if it was easier to have Nadine as the catalyst to explain all of Frank and Harley's problems. If anyone ultimately made Nadine expendable, it was more likely Buzz. Buzz got the chances at redemption that Nadine never really did. And having two dysfunctional parents on screen seems a little redundant, especially if you need to free up money. Carol had probably escaped the chopping block for the previous two years.

20 minutes ago, P.J. said:

In some ways, Nadine is hamstrung by Harley and Frank and her abandonment of them. It was easier to soften Reva before she had kids. Nadine was older, and had been gone from her kids' lives for like fifteen years. I don't know if Long and later Curlee thought it was too big a hurdle, or if it was easier to have Nadine as the catalyst to explain all of Frank and Harley's problems. If anyone ultimately made Nadine expendable, it was more likely Buzz. Buzz got the chances at redemption that Nadine never really did. And having two dysfunctional parents on screen seems a little redundant, especially if you need to free up money. Carol had probably escaped the chopping block for the previous two years.

Nadine's mistakes with her kids were always there, while Buzz mostly got away with it. Another reason I disliked Buzz for a number of years. I think Jean also played the heartbreak of what she had done more than Deas ever did with Buzz.

On soaps, especially back then, I would often feel I needed to choose a side, but I never did with Vanessa and Nadine. I suppose it helps that we were clearly never meant to root for Billy/Nadine and Nadine was clearly going to pay.

That whole situation was very sad when you think of what would become of Billy soon after marrying Vanessa. I'm glad that the show did let Billy be contrite for his mistakes and not judge Vanessa for moving on, as you mentioned. This is, sadly, not common on soaps.