GL now joins some illustrious company in the cancelled soap thread.

Let's share memories and ask questions here.

3 hours ago, P.J. said:

I'm not exactly sure when Alan finds out Jackie and Justin are Phillip's natural parents. (It may even be after Jackie's death in '82, because he didn't know before Diane's death in Sept '81)

I'm pretty sure it was after Jackie died. I recall a scene where he tells Hope about it and about how he had the babies switched.

4 hours ago, P.J. said:

Yes, it seems like a long time (and there were obvious stories Marland was heavily into like Nola/Kelly/Morgan, Carrie) but this is also the guy who took his sweet time with ATWT's Adam reveal, which hit the three year mark before Hal found out he was a father. Meanwhile, almost everyone else in town seemed to know. The Aaron reveal also took YEARS.

It's not how long it took to do the reveal that bothered me. Possibly because he didn't create the original story, he didn't seem to care about it that much. 

Like I said, the idea that Elizabeth wouldn't have confronted Jackie over her manipulations was absurd. That she would give away Phillip to Justin and Jackie was absurd. That she would completely remove herself from Phillip's life with no explanation was absurd. Certainly, Alan going along with this was insanely ridiculous.

(The only upside to this is it helps explain why Phillip was so completely f@cked up as an adult. His parents literally abandoned him with no explanation for why they were leaving him with those people, nice as they were).

It's like he couldn't be bothered the play all the story beats because he wanted Elizabeth out, and because it would have taken attention away from his own stories and his own characters.

Alan confessing to Hope about the baby switch was another unplayed beat. She should have hit ceiling finding out he did something like that. Instead, she was like, "Oh, O.K."

The same happened when she finally found out Alan had lied to her for years about his involvement with Roger. Instead of dumping his ass, she virtuously stood by her criminal husband and forgave him. It was SO anticlimatic. The only time Hope gave Alan grief over anything was when it was HIS story, the affair with Rita.

Soaps often took years to do the big reveals, it's only when they didn't play all the story beats that they flopped.

1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

Unless my memory is COMPLETELY off, what I remember is that Jackie was taking her Christmas decorations down (so around January '80) when she fell and hit her head. While she was in the hospital and out of it, Justin heard her mumbling the truth about Phillip's parentage.

LOL...for all of Marland's wizardry, there are times the writing is just so...trite(?)  Fall, hit head, mumble secret. Or the ever-present "skulk in doorway and over hear secret." It was almost refreshing when Vanessa simply blatantly snooped through files.

 

1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

I

2. How many more large parties with almost the entire cast participating in wildly fancy clothes. (Even the "poor" characters got glamed up, lol). It seems like during the mid to late 80s GL had a big do at the country club almost once a month!

The other thing i off-handedly wondered was if all "the fancy parties" at the country club kind of put the Reardons (like Tony) in a corner. You would've really had to invent a huge reason for them to ever be there (like Nola's engagement party, and I think Nola then guilts Vanessa into inviting them to the masquerade that introduces Alexandra to town).

Where the Lewises like to cling to their "down home" roots, they were very comfortable dressing the part and putting on that tux. Tony, Jim and later Rusty Shayne never were comfortable in that millieu.

1 hour ago, DeeVee said:

(The only upside to this is it helps explain why Phillip was so completely f@cked up as an adult. His parents literally abandoned him with no explanation for why they were leaving him with those people, nice as they were).

It's like he couldn't be bothered the play all the story beats because he wanted Elizabeth out, and because it would have taken attention away from his own stories and his own characters.

Which is probably part of the reason Phillip was a fan favorite. They knew he'd been !@#$%^&*]ed up as a kid by these "loving" adults.

I give Marland some slack. I kind of detest Elizabeth, and see her as a spineless wonder. I can see where it would be hard to write for her believably. The fact she scoots off to Europe and never visits Phillip again almost seems in character for her. Maybe the Dobsons had some kind of spine for her, but I can't envision it.

12 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I give Marland some slack. I kind of detest Elizabeth, and see her as a spineless wonder. I can see where it would be hard to write for her believably. The fact she scoots off to Europe and never visits Phillip again almost seems in character for her. Maybe the Dobsons had some kind of spine for her, but I can't envision it.

Not that I can recall. 😂 IMO, the Dobsons were much better at writing for the "bad" girls than the "good" girls. 

I'm fine with the fact that he didn't like the character. Why not just kill her off? She was, at that point, not really needed on the canvas anymore. Whereas Jackie had more story to play.

That's why I enjoyed when Kobe/Long took over and finally gave Phillip a voice about the whole Justin/Jackie/Elizabeth/Alan situation.. and he voiced them to Mindy and saying he always sensed tension, but no one ever told him what was going on so he was always confused.  He explained how he lived with Justin, but that he never understood why he was living with Justin/Jackie.. that he and Justin always clashed, etc.

And one of my favorite scenes was Mindy deciding to question Justin to the point where he's annoyed with her, and I think there is a look in her eye that conveyed that she had an idea that he was really Phillip's dad.  In fact, both Mindy and Rick knew the truth and never told Phillip.

And I think that Alan was planning to tell Phillip because Bradley Raines was blackmailing him.. but Bradley told Phillip.. who had such a meltdown internally that I don't think he ever recovered.

Once Phillip found out at the country club and he realized almost everyone knew, he grew closer to Beth because she didn't know the truth.. and he kind of low key pursued her partly because of that, party because he was sticking it to Rick, and also because he wanted to protect her from Bradley in a way that he wasn't protected.

Edited October 12Oct 12 by Soaplovers

26 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

That's why I enjoyed when Kobe/Long took over and finally gave Phillip a voice about the whole Justin/Jackie/Elizabeth/Jackie situation.. and he voiced them to Mindy and saying he always sensed tension, but no one ever told him what was going on so he was always confused.  He explained how he lived with Justin, but that he never understood why he was living with Justin/Jackie.. that he and Justin always clashed, etc.

I really appreciate this, because we have to give credit where it’s due.  They used history to shape the dynamic of the Four Musketeers in a way that feels intentional. It would’ve been easy to flatten them into archetypes: prince, snob, joker, Cinderella (which is what so many soaps do wrong when they try to recreate a "teen scene crowd"). But instead, Kobe and Long wove in the legacy of the prior generation to drive their motives. 

Edited October 12Oct 12 by j swift

5 minutes ago, j swift said:

But instead, Kobe and Long wove in the legacy of the prior generation to drive their motives.

That is something Long was VERY good at--writing stories where the past was still impacting the present.  

Interesting discussions.

I guess one thing that points to Marland not being a fan of Elizabeth is he derailed the Mike/Elizabeth romance and tried to push Mike towards Jennifer.

But that story fizzled also. Was there no chemistry b/w Don Stewart and Geraldine Court?

I think Doug was a friend/fan of GC but must have observed/listened to feedback that Mike/Jennifer wasn't working.

Not finding a solid new romance for Mike in a way contributed to his dismissal years later.

1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

Once Phillip found out at the country club and he realized almost everyone knew, he grew closer to Beth because she didn't know the truth.. and he kind of low key pursued her partly because of that, party because he was sticking it to Rick, and also because he wanted to protect her from Bradley in a way that he wasn't protected.

I do love when Phillip pins them to the wall and figures out a lot of people knew. Alan had told Hope, Jackie, Justin and Ross knew, Ed knew and had told Maureen, I believe.

4 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Interesting discussions.

I guess one thing that points to Marland not being a fan of Elizabeth is he derailed the Mike/Elizabeth romance and tried to push Mike towards Jennifer.

But that story fizzled also. Was there no chemistry b/w Don Stewart and Geraldine Court?

I think Doug was a friend/fan of GC but must have observed/listened to feedback that Mike/Jennifer wasn't working.

Not finding a solid new romance for Mike in a way contributed to his dismissal years later.

Honestly, Mike more than once comes off like an [!@#$%^&*]. there's a moment when after scoring points against Alan at the custody hearing, Elizabeth's a little concerned about how Alan's going to handle it, and Mike is smiling that he stuck it to Alan.

And I don't like how Mike treated Trish when they're breaking up (not that they were more than kissing friends, but still). Alan gives Trish a bracelet, Mike finds out and really lays into her, not really listening when she denies an affair (well, it's not at that point) or that Hope is drinking too much.

Then there's the way he forces the truth out of Jennifer on the stand at the trial. Granted, she is stupid for risking jail rather than simply admitting she had a child, but still.

58 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Then there's the way he forces the truth out of Jennifer on the stand at the trial. Granted, she is stupid for risking jail rather than simply admitting she had a child, but still.

Not only that, but he told her he couldn't be personally involved with her anymore because she kept the truth about Amanda from him. She wasn't "honest" enough for him.

FOR THE LOVE OF PETE, THE WOMAN HAD KEPT THIS SECRET FOR 20 YEARS AND WAS TRYING TO PROTECT HER KID!

Sure, you can argue that she was wrong to risk prison (especially since she had another underage child) but he acted as though doing this meant she was a habitual liar.

Didn't he break up with Alex because he didn't like the tricky way she drove Alan out of the country? (OH, THE IRONY).

Yeah, Mike was a sanctimonious jerk.

Edited October 13Oct 13 by DeeVee

23 minutes ago, DeeVee said:

Not only that, but he told her he couldn't be personally involved with her anymore because she kept the truth about Amanda from him. She wasn't "honest" enough for him.

FOR THE LOVE OF PETE, THE WOMAN HAD KEPT THIS SECRET FOR 20 YEARS AND WAS TRYING TO PROTECT HER KID!

Sure, you can argue that she was wrong to risk prison (especially since she had another underage child) but he acted as though doing this meant she was a habitual liar.

Didn't he break up with Alex because he didn't like the tricky way she drove Alan out of the country? (OH, THE IRONY).

Yeah, Mike was a sanctimonious jerk.

Honestly, I don't pay that much attention to the trial. I mainly watch those episodes to catch Ross and Vanessa, who is dashing around like a mad hatter getting Ross ready for court. Is she concerned about truth or justice? NOPE. Her main concern is whether or not Ross' pocket hankie is fresh. LOL.

I'm not sure what soured Mike on Alex. One episode they're flying a plane, the next he ends up escorting Lillian to Founder's Day. You'd have thought as much as he hated Alan, he'd have been thrilled Alex got one over on him.

On 10/5/2025 at 11:40 AM, kalbir said:

In 1981 Douglas Marland introduced the Lewis family from Oklahoma that owned an oil company. To me that was influenced by Dallas. Lewis Oil was still around in the 1990s and it was so outdated by then. 1990s Lewis Oil should have diversified into Lewis Energy or Lewis Industries or something like that.

I thought they did, with a Lewis Construction pivot for Dylan, etc.?

I don’t wanna derail anything anyone’s talking about, but why was Ross Marler basically treated like a saint in the 90s?

16 minutes ago, SanCristobelsFinest said:

I thought they did, with a Lewis Construction pivot for Dylan, etc.?

Oil was still their main concern, but there was also a construction division. When Josh returned in '86-'87, he didn't immediately come back into the fold. He works for a construction company, and the owner dies, leaving it to Josh. Dylan ends up working there while he's in town, as the wheelin' and dealin' is not for him. There's also briefly a trucking division, which Mindy and Rusty run. Billy later inherited The Towers, but I'm not sure that was ever truly a part of Lewis.