20 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

BTW, I wanted Elvera Roussel to return as Hope, but barring that, I would have cast Jacqueline Courtney in the role. (Thanks to the extreme SORASing of Alan-Michael, Robin Mattson was too young in the 1980s to return to the show. She was born in 1956, according to Google. In 1987, she would have only been 31 to AM's 17. I know soaps cast wildly age-inappropriate actors to play parents and their adult offspring all the time, but it's a practice I find irritating and distracting. At least in 1987, Courtney was in her 40s.)

Courtney still looked very good, IIRC, when she appeared with George Reinholt for a soap tribute in 1994 - having her return as Hope around then and clashing with a recently returned Alan could have worked. I'm sure some might say she was too old compared to the former Alan/Hope age differences, but then I thought Ron Raines was miscast as Alan anyway.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

Courtney still looked very good, IIRC, when she appeared with George Reinholt for a soap tribute in 1994 - having her return as Hope around then and clashing with a recently returned Alan could have worked. I'm sure some might say she was too old compared to the former Alan/Hope age differences, but then I thought Ron Raines was miscast as Alan anyway.

Yes, the originally-conceived age gap between Hope and Alan would have decreased with any actress cast as Hope who was reasonably old enough to play Alan-Michael's mother. TPTB de-aged Alan when Ron Raines (whom I also felt was miscast) took over from the late Chris Bernau, so the ages of all three characters was off-kilter. SORASing AM and Hope, while de-aging Alan, screwed up continuity. Unfortunately, there were so many egregious problems with this show's continuity, beginning in the 1980s.

5 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

Yes, the originally-conceived age gap between Hope and Alan would have decreased with any actress cast as Hope who was reasonably old enough to play Alan-Michael's mother. TPTB de-aged Alan when Ron Raines (whom I also felt was miscast) took over from the late Chris Bernau, so the ages of all three characters was off-kilter. SORASing AM and Hope, while de-aging Alan, screwed up continuity. Unfortunately, there were so many egregious problems with this show's continuity, beginning in the 1980s.

I know it's been said a million times but I still can't believe they de-aged Alan Michael even further and tried to pair him with Marina. (and wasn't that the closest we ever got to Hope coming back, via some phone call where we didn't actually see her). By that point they would have ended up casting Julie Pinson as Hope...

15 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I know it's been said a million times but I still can't believe they de-aged Alan Michael even further and tried to pair him with Marina. (and wasn't that the closest we ever got to Hope coming back, via some phone call where we didn't actually see her). By that point they would have ended up casting Julie Pinson as Hope...

Don't even get me started on how they screwed up Leah Bauer's age. UGH.

Yes, both Mike and Hope phoned Springfield once, after they had been written out. Mike conversed with Phillip and Hope spoke to Alan Michael. The actor chosen to represent Mike had a southern drawl, IIRC, but the voice actress standing in for Hope sounded pretty good to me.

In the end, I sometimes feel lucky that TIIC at the time didn't try to recast Mike and Hope. Ed, Alan, Alex, Amanda, and various other characters were seriously damaged by weak (IMHO) recasts. I didn't trust anyone in charge to recast once-beloved roles well.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

I know it's been said a million times but I still can't believe they de-aged Alan Michael even further and tried to pair him with Marina. (and wasn't that the closest we ever got to Hope coming back, via some phone call where we didn't actually see her). By that point they would have ended up casting Julie Pinson as Hope...

Alan Michael & Marina is one pairing I'd like to forget forever. Especially when he was once thought to be her father. It was like the equivalent of Craig bedding Dani on ATWT. I never got how any writer could pair those two together and not recognize the connection. But then again, they were pushing kissing cousins at this point, so...

48 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

Alan Michael & Marina is one pairing I'd like to forget forever. Especially when he was once thought to be her father. It was like the equivalent of Craig bedding Dani on ATWT. I never got how any writer could pair those two together and not recognize the connection. But then again, they were pushing kissing cousins at this point, so...

The Craig-Dani coupling on ATWT was incredibly offensive.

So was the fact that Frederick and Christina/Rick and Blake, boinked each other on TGL.

Edited November 2, 20241 yr by vetsoapfan

 

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 By that point they would have ended up casting Julie Pinson as Hope...

Good Lord, bite your tongue.

5 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I wanted Elvera Roussel to return as Hope, but barring that, I would have cast Jacqueline Courtney in the role. (Thanks to the extreme SORASing of Alan-Michael, Robin Mattson was too young in the 1980s to return to the show. She was born in 1956, according to Google. In 1987, she would have only been 31 to AM's 17. I know soaps cast wildly age-inappropriate actors to play parents and their adult offspring all the time, but it's a practice I find irritating and distracting. At least in 1987, Courtney was in her 40s.)

Courtney would have been a great recast as Hope, as long as Don Stewart's Mike was never intended to return (otherwise, Courtney and Stewart were contemporaries).  I think Courtney could have convincingly played Peter Simon's niece (without explaining their similar ages).  And more importantly, Courtney could play a mix of sincerity and strength that Hope needed, plus she would have been a good foil for Ron Raines' Allan.  She also had experience playing a P&G legacy character, giving her the perfect Bauer Power.   Sadly, this was a road not taken.   

5 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Courtney would have been a great recast as Hope, as long as Don Stewart's Mike was never intended to return (otherwise, Courtney and Stewart were contemporaries).  I think Courtney could have convincingly played Peter Simon's niece (without explaining their similar ages).  And more importantly, Courtney could play a mix of sincerity and strength that Hope needed, plus she would have been a good foil for Ron Raines' Allan.  She also had experience playing a P&G legacy character, giving her the perfect Bauer Power.   Sadly, this was a road not taken.   

With Stewart being 11 years older than Courtney, his playing her father would have been an unlikely stretch (although not as bad as some other actor combinations chosen to play parents and their adult children over the years). Mike Bauer did have Hope when he was very young, so I suppose Stewart could have been asked to play Mike as older than Stewart's actual age. The oft-used gray-hair-around-the-temples trick might have been able to age Stewart/Mike enough to be believable on-screen.

With all the new, unfamiliar faces on TGL, I would have preferred Stewart (and Mart Hulswit and Elvera Roussel) to reprise their roles, but as noted earlier, rapidly SORASing Alan-Michael in the 1980s really screwed up all the characters' ages.

Bad decisions made in that decade damaged TGL for the rest of its run, IMHO.

How bad was SORAS on GL among some of the characters?

A few examples.

Rick: born 1970, high school graduation 1983

Blake: born 1975, returned as an adult in 1988

Phillip: introduced in 1977 as a child, high school graduation 1983

Alan-Michael: born 1981, returned as a teen in 1987

Samantha: born 1981, returned as a teen in 1989

Little Billy: born 1985, elementary school aged in 1989 (Bryan Buffington was 9 years old in 1989)

Michelle: born 1985, elementary school aged in 1990 (Rachel Miner was 10 years old in 1990)

Marah: born 1987, elementary school aged in 1989 (Ashley Peldon was 5 years old in 1989)

Edited November 2, 20241 yr by kalbir

16 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Yep, TPTB definitely decimated the Bauer family in the early 1980s. Producer Gail Kobe acknowledged in the press that the fans were enraged about it, and that they kept demanding the return of the core family. She said, "Don't be surprised to see Mike and Hope written back into the story."

Soap Opera Digest also reported that TGL's fans' most-requested move for the show at that time was to bring back the Bauers, but as we all know, that never happened.

Instead, we got a bunch of Santoses, San Cristocrapians, Coopers, etc.🤢

BTW, I wanted Elvera Roussel to return as Hope, but barring that, I would have cast Jacqueline Courtney in the role. (Thanks to the extreme SORASing of Alan-Michael, Robin Mattson was too young in the 1980s to return to the show. She was born in 1956, according to Google. In 1987, she would have only been 31 to AM's 17. I know soaps cast wildly age-inappropriate actors to play parents and their adult offspring all the time, but it's a practice I find irritating and distracting. At least in 1987, Courtney was in her 40s.)

If neither Roussel nor Courtney had worked out, I would have accepted Barr.

Writing out Hope at the end of 1983 was so weird because Long had started to write a massive War of the rose story with Hope/Alan...and seemed able to restore Hope's spirit.  I always felt she would have been a pawn used by Alexandra in early 1984..and also an element of conflict between Mike and Alexandra also.

 Courtney would have made a good Hope.  She had a certain strength and toughness that would have served Hope...and she read more mature so I could bought her being a parent to a young Alan Michael in the late 80s.

I always thought not enough effort was made with exploring Alan Michael's Bauer roots.  He did have bonding scenes with Ed in the 90s...but otherwise, not much was done with it.  Especially given the tense history between Mike/Ed and Alan.

6 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

With all the new, unfamiliar faces on TGL, I would have preferred Stewart (and Mart Hulswit and Elvera Roussel) to reprise their roles, but as noted earlier, rapidly SORASing Alan-Michael in the 1980s really screwed up all the characters' ages.

I would have brought him back to stay after the anniversary....I wonder how he and Marj would have worked together? He could have investigated the Amanda is Brandon's daughter, found out it was a hoax from Brandon to keep Alan and Alex fighting (manipulating beyond the grave still) and Roger kept the hoax going long enough to marry Amanda and drain Spaulding's assets before he disappears with Mike on his trial. The AM actor looked much younger then the previous one, but he was weak and AM played out entirely by then.  But I think Mike as patriarch and a constant foil for Alan with Rick and Abby as tentpoles to take the place of Ed and Mo would have brought the Bauer back to center. It was almost as if Ross took over for Mike after he left but Ross still had some bedroom drama going on with Blake so he was too busy to be patriarch.

 

54 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I always thought not enough effort was made with exploring Alan Michael's Bauer roots.  He did have bonding scenes with Ed in the 90s...but otherwise, not much was done with it.  Especially given the tense history between Mike/Ed and Alan.

That was always such a missed opportunity. Even more so then Phillip AM should have had a huge identity crisis, being a Bauer and raised by his mother far from Alan's influence. When they brought back deaged AM he would mention hanging out with Rick and Mel but you never saw it...(the idiots who came for San Crud and the Mob and Jeva more then likely didnt even know they were related.)

46 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Writing out Hope at the end of 1983 was so weird because Long had started to write a massive War of the rose story with Hope/Alan...and seemed able to restore Hope's spirit.  I always felt she would have been a pawn used by Alexandra in early 1984..and also an element of conflict between Mike and Alexandra also.

Gail Kobe said afterwards that creative differences between the actors (Stewart, Roussel, Cullen) and TPTB led to certain actors being let go. But even if that were true, it doesn't explain why beloved, necessary characters like Mike and Hope were never recast, or why later PTB never offered Stewart and Roussel their jobs back.

46 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

 Courtney would have made a good Hope.  She had a certain strength and toughness that would have served Hope...and she read more mature so I could bought her being a parent to a young Alan Michael in the late 80s.

Courtney also had star appeal and charisma which the audience responded to, and which TGL could have benefited from when it started to wane in the 1980s.

46 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I always thought not enough effort was made with exploring Alan Michael's Bauer roots.  He did have bonding scenes with Ed in the 90s...but otherwise, not much was done with it.  Especially given the tense history between Mike/Ed and Alan.

Most of the show's pre-1983 history was severed when Gail Kobe and Pamela Long took over, and except for Maureen Garret, Jerry verDorn and Michael Zaslow, TGL felt like a completely different soap.

16 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

TPTB de-aged Alan when Ron Raines (whom I also felt was miscast) took over from the late Chris Bernau, s

I always think who would have been a good age appropriate recast for Alan, RR was such a miscast...oddly, I think he would have made a good Mike.

2 hours ago, kalbir said:

How bad was SORAS on GL among some of the characters?

 

Little Billy: born 1985, elementary school aged in 1989 (Bryan Buffington was 9 years old in 1989)

Bill was born in November 1984. Michelle is born November 1985. Ben is born in 1986. 

The oddest thing about Alan-Michael and Sam they were virtually born at the same time in 81, and yet, Samantha was younger than him when she returned.

Coop was born off screen in the mid 90's, and then dates a younger Lizzie in the '00's. 

Oh, and Marina, who was born on screen in '93, is somehow ends up older than Susan/Daisy, who was born on screen in '87.