Jack Smith's last year is the one that really got the heat, 2005. Of course, some things like the misuse of Katherine and Jill was unforgivable, but overall I think viewers were happy. That final year started off hot with Cassie's death which was brilliantly carried through the entire year. Michael and Lauren were ONLY interesting when Smith was writing the show. Sheila's return was a huge, huge flop though and sealed the fate of that uneven year. But later we learned that Jack Smith's son was dying so who knows how heavily involved he was in the storylines. I remember he said he just returned from grieving his sons death when LML fired him.

That was Alden.

I don't remember any humor during Alden's solo stint. It was deadpan drama, just like Bill Bell.

Plus, the pacing was great under Smith: not excruciatingly slow like Bell/Alden, not ADD-fast like LML and not all over the place like MAB.

It was deadpan drama, just like Bill Bell.

Alden's humor was character based & intelligent.

Smith's humor was smug & contrived.

Plus, the pacing was great under Smith:

Smith's pacing was HORRIBLE.

Shendafer's return alone was the stuff of nightmares.

but overall I think viewers were happy.

Not really.

Smith was disliked a lot but was helped by Cassie's death.

Edited September 26, 200916 yr by DeeeDee

Smith's crap is still better than anything Latham or Maria Arena Bell/Hogan Sheffer/Scott Hamner have given us.

Though, if we can't get Alden and Smith back, I'd more than welcome another writer that trained with Bill Bell or an actual storyteller that cares about telling good stories and that doesn't steal story ideas from crazy fans on message boards, like this current writing regimes does.

Edited September 26, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Smith's crap is still better than anything Latham or Maria Arena Bell/Hogan Sehffer/Scott Hamner have given us.

Touche.

or an actual storyteller that cares about telling good stories

RC's busy with OLTL.

If someone really cared about Y&R or any soap, they'd realize that this show is crap and big changes have to be made. They'd try to lure one of the many great storytellers that left daytime and offer them as much money as financially possible and all the creative control as they'd like.

Maria and her ego need to get over themselves, and she should get her ass back to the fashion industry or something. Writing isn't and will never be her profession. Sheffer and Hamner are wannabe primetime writers that should not be writing a daily daytime soap.

Some of the staff writers need to be fired too, but I have faith that the next regime will create a more cohesive writing team, or maybe that's just blind optimism. I find a lot of the day to day writing to be atrocious these days.

I'm curious what Mark will think of the season ratings info that Bibel provided...

Edited September 26, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

I don't recall Alden or Smith's HW stints being dark and certainly not humorless. Alden got her kicks with the Jill/Kay/Larry stuff and I thought both gave us tons of humor in the workplace relationships. Phyllis, in general, was a very humorous character pre-LML.

Yeah, I had forgotten about Larry. It's funny...when I watch those scenes on Youtube they make me smile, but I found them cringeworthy back then.

But Phyllis was once a laugh riot. But I honestly most loved her (in the humor sense) when Bill Bell was still writing her.

Jack Smith's last year is the one that really got the heat, 2005. Of course, some things like the misuse of Katherine and Jill was unforgivable, but overall I think viewers were happy. That final year started off hot with Cassie's death which was brilliantly carried through the entire year. Michael and Lauren were ONLY interesting when Smith was writing the show. Sheila's return was a huge, huge flop though and sealed the fate of that uneven year. But later we learned that Jack Smith's son was dying so who knows how heavily involved he was in the storylines. I remember he said he just returned from grieving his sons death when LML fired him.

Cassie's death remains, I think, the best one ever done on this show. But you're right about Sheila at the end of his regime. But since the higher ups don't seem to care about "storytelling", it seems unlikely that this is why they displaced Smith. One can only conclude it had to do with the ever-falling ratings, which were falling before he got there, and after he left.

I'm curious what Mark will think of the season ratings info that Bibel provided...

Bibel's analysis is interesting. I had been tracking the ratings numbers, so I had a general sense of the decline rates she published yesterday. But, still:

- the Days miracle is a miracle. I even understand it. While DOOL is not/never has been my show, every time I turn it on now I recognize the characters, see the vets, see a small number of stories with a certain momentum. Also, for Days, this is an era where many of the performers are solid.

- Sara's analysis says that it is the OLDER viewers that are declining at the fastest rate. This reflects my reality. When I have gone to the gym in the daytime (when older folks seem to congregate there), none of them are tuning in a soap. And in my own family, the long-term viewers seem to be tuning out as the shows become unrecognizable to them.

- The problem with the one-year snapshot Sara offers is that it actually misses (at least for Y&R) and interesting part of the story. The current team had actually RESTORED aspects of Y&R. MAB/JG had horrible declines in the 2007-2008 season, but by August 2008 the numbers were climbing. Indeed, for the first half of the 2008-2009 season, they actually got positive ratings growth (not a lot, but it restored some of the damage MAB had done in her first six months). So, the overall decline Sara observes for Y&R is EVEN WORSE THAN IT SEEMS, because most of it happened in the aftermath of the Silver Chipmunk.

- The problem with the one-year snapshot Sara offers is that it actually misses (at least for Y&R) and interesting part of the story. The current team had actually RESTORED aspects of Y&R. MAB/JG had horrible declines in the 2007-2008 season, but by August 2008 the numbers were climbing. Indeed, for the first half of the 2008-2009 season, they actually got positive ratings growth (not a lot, but it restored some of the damage MAB had done in her first six months). So, the overall decline Sara observes for Y&R is EVEN WORSE THAN IT SEEMS, because most of it happened in the aftermath of the Silver Chipmunk.

The restoration they might have brought in the earlier months of their regime didn't last throughout the the year though. Sara's report spans from Sept 2008 to Sept 2009, that's about the entire time this regime has been in charge. The show has seemingly spent most of this year, barring the very beginning of the year, in decline ratings-wise. While other shows are suffering too, we can no longer hold the Maria Arena Bell/Hogan Sheffer/Scott Hamner administration responsible for any significant ratings growth, at least a growth that was long-term. Whatever growth they had fizzled and isn't coming back.

Did the show really start declining heavily when compared to last season at the beginning of the Silver Chipmunk mess? If so, that should have given the idiots in charge of this show information as to what their audience really expects out of them.

Edited September 26, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

The restoration they might have brought in the earlier months of their regime didn't last throughout the the year though. Sara's report spans from Sept 2008 to Sept 2009, that's about the entire time this regime has been in charge. The show has seemingly spent most of this year, barring the very beginning of the year, in decline ratings-wise. While other shows are suffering too, we can no longer hold the Maria Arena Bell/Hogan Sheffer/Scott Hamner administration responsible for any significant ratings growth, at least a growth that was long-term. Whatever growth they had fizzled and isn't coming back.

Did the show really start declining heavily when compared to last season at the beginning of the Silver Chipmunk mess? If so, that should have given the idiots in charge of this show information as to what their audience really expects out of them.

I plan to analyze that. I'm actually saying the decline that Sara reports is an UNDERESTIMATE, because they reversed their gain momentum.

If we started looking in early 2009, we'd see decline in the last 6-8 months was even GREATER than what Sara is summarizing.

As you can imagine, one of my "damn charts" will surely follow, LOL. Maybe more than one.

I find myself agreeing with Sara A. Bibel more and more about the writing on Y&R.

http://www.fancast.com/blogs/deep-soap/deep-soap-the-good-and-the-bad/

Evil Minus The Plan

Now that Patty’s reign of terror on The Young & The Restless is over — at least temporarily — I am still unsure what Victor’s end game was. He gave her a new face and made sure she was hired at Jabot. I assumed that at some point viewers would learn what Victor’s goal was. My guesses were that he was using Patty to help him take over Jabot or bankrupt the company. If Victor’s goal was to make Jack fall in love with the woman who shot him, well, that would be pretty lame revenge. Jack would be disturbed when he found out, but so what? He’s dated plenty of other crazy women. Based on the dialogue, Victor had not thought beyond getting her hired at Jabot and seducing Jack. Other characters accused him of wanting Patty to kill Jack, but there was never any hint of that in his scenes with Patty. If Victor wanted Jack dead, why not just hire a hit man? As much as Victor and Jack hate each other, I have never gotten the sense that either truly wants to murder his nemesis. Sure, Jack might leave Victor lying on the ground when he had a heart attack, but that is a lot different then pre-meditated violence. As annoying as it is that Victor always comes up on top, at least his plans have always been well thought out. This one seems like he, and the writers, were making it up as they went along.

Edited September 28, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

I find myself agreeing with Sara A. Bibel more and more about the writing on Y&R.

http://www.fancast.com/blogs/deep-soap/deep-soap-the-good-and-the-bad/

And TPTB did Patty Jane right after Victor proved he COULD & WOULD kill someone ON HIS OWN.

They totally made up "Patty Jane" as they went along. That's no big secret.

They totally made up "Patty Jane" as they went along. That's no big secret.

Exactly.

Just like Paul doesn't know his sister until the plot demands it!

This should be addressed here...

I heard something funny, that Maria Arena Bell actually blames the fans for not enjoying her stories, and the spoilers that magazines and other sources post as a contribution for this.

While a certain spoiler may deter someone from watching, how does that explain fans hating the overall storylines, the character writing, and the day to day writing?

How does it mask her and her writing team's inability to properly pace and execute storylines and to come up with character driven storylines that aren't stunt or shock heavy and completely hollow?

If it's true, not only is her ego massive, but she has some nerve for blaming the viewers who keep her show on the air for her and her writing team's lack of storytelling talent.

EXCUSE ME?! Are you f*cking kidding?

Maria blames the fans for her inability to guide her team into writing competent, character-based storytelling? Not that this is anything new in daytime, but where the hell do any of them(especially this one, claiming that she's honoring Bill Bell's legacy) get off blaming the fans for speaking out about how dreadfully awful this show has become?

What the hell is wrong with her? Not only is she worthless as a Head-Writer(demonstrated by her inability to play the beats of a story and opting for cheap tricks in lieu of actual storytelling) and Co-Executive Producer(not keeping up with what is actually taped as opposed to what is actually written in the script), but she's one arrogant, self-righteous bitch. I can't wait for SONY to throw her out.