Y&R: Fire Maria Arena Bell, Hogan Sheffer, Scott Hamner, and Paul Rauch

[DeeeDee]

You would think TPTB would learn from GL.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I hope this week's stunt based episodes FLOP in next week's ratings report. Here's hoping it will do to this writing and producing regime what "Out of the Ashes" did for Latham.

These writers do not deserve any sort of validation for putting on crap.

[YRBB]

OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!!!!!!

[y&r_fan]

You know, I firmly believe that Hogan is the cause of the show's problems (not that Maria is entirely blameless - she lets him get away with it). Even if only Hogan were fired, I think everything would fall into place. (Scott's firing would be icing on the cake.)

Oh, you're all such pessimists. Y&R will NEVER have a final episode, no matter how bad it gets. Not in our lifetime.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

If Maria lets him get away with all of this, what does that say about her? To me, that she's incompetent, talentless, not creative enough to come up with her own stories, and directionless, since her solo stint as Head Writer was a FAILURE in 2008.

Scott Hamner had a disastrous stint as Head Writer of Port Charles and he was Latham's Co-Head Writer for that disastrous time after Smith and Alden left. He's had enough time at this show, and his contributions still suck.

Hogan needs to go, make no mistake. But the others running this show (into the ground) are no better than him. They all need to go. And if that isn't possible and we must keep Maria, as I've said, then she needs to find a better singular Co-Head Writer and trim her writing staff.

Ratings aren't getting better, CBS only renewed the show for 2 years, daytime dramas are dropping one by one. What makes you think this show's future, and the future of all daytime soaps is safe?

[DeeeDee]

Pretty much.

[JimTolkien]

You know I don't want Passions to flop, I would like to see the show get a bump in the ratings. I think the real test for Passions comes after viewers see what happens with Colleen's death and that baby switch spoiler everyone keeps talking about. I think the fallout is where we see if Passions will do well. And with the lively nubile younger characters with the excellent storylines and upbeat energy , I dare you to challenge me that Passions won't be a success. I predict they will have a 5.0 ratings by the end of the year with this masterful storytelling. Starting with the heart-pounding (I was not the one to use that word - that's how the show promoted it)episode on Thursday.

[y&r_fan]

But the fact is, Maria isn't going anywhere. I guarantee it. Getting rid of Hogan (and Scott) is a much more attainable goal.

Because:

(A.) P&G have wanted out of the soap business for years. The Bells and Sony are still committed to their shows; and

(B.) GL and Passions did not have the massive international following that the Bell soaps have - Y&R and B&B could almost survive on their international sales alone.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

But who knows? Sony owns more of the show than the Bell's do, if they want change, it can happen. So, I'm going to be optimistic with that. Also, I did mention if she must stay, then the second best thing would be for her to admit mistakes and get rid of her henchmen, so I do agree with you on that.

But CBS ultimately canceled GL, not P&G, and if P&G wanted out, they wouldn't have let CBS renew ATWT this year when they canceled GL.

The Bells and Sony can do all they want, ultimately, it goes back to CBS. If CBS wants out of the soap business, they'll be out of it.

So? CBS doesn't make a damn profit from Y&R and B&B's international airings, so they couldn't care any less.

ABC owns all their soaps, so they make a profit out of them. NBC only has one daytime soap and doesn't want to expand.

[JimTolkien]

Ahhh, this about COVERS IT!!! And frankly, a corporation doesn't just reduce a contract extension by more than half for no reason whatsoever. CBS is also thinking about their business as well and they are also selling of parts of it to cut costs and free up cash for other things and clearly one of them is causing Y&R actors to not get pay increases and the show to cut back on production costs in some respect. So JMHO, I think people need to quit saying that Y&R is above anything right about now, because they are NOT. Take a look at the economy we are living in, everyone is doing it.

I truly also believe that CBS is probably the one asking for the pacing to be faster on the show...and I don't believe these writers are talented or creative enough to be able to tell the stories they want with this pacing. I was reading something today about the end of GL and I thought this quote was pretty interesting, it came from the VP of programming for the Fox Reality Channel...I just had to chuckle..Fox has a Reality Channel - I didn't even know that.

"The decline of the soap opera as is much a factor of the business model as it is of the creative," he says. "It was designed to be 52 weeks a year of original product, no repeats. In today's business model for network television, that's not an efficient model anymore."

"To begin a soap, a producer has to put together performers, a writing staff, a bible of characters and plots -- and has to plan things out for months or years, as opposed to a handful of weeks. "That's not really the mentality of network programming anymore," Boden says. "I think a lot of it is about quick fixes, and about maintaining an ever-shrinking audience, and giving them something unique, and attracting a younger demo[graphic]."

And then there was a comment from the founding editor of SOW....that went like this..

Increasingly, the "quick fix" -- particularly for cable channels looking to hook viewers -- comes in the form of reality programming. There are a number of similarities in the forms: melodrama, over-the-top characters, extreme situations. But reality shows can have a limited run -- soaps are open-ended by design -- and offer a voyeuristic thrill soaps can't provide, creating new celebrities in the process, something the news media has seized upon eagerly.

"People like to emulate people on TV," says Sands, who has advised some reality stars. And, he adds, "people get to feel superior" to misbehaving reality show stars.

Torchin, however, can't stand reality shows.

"They're voyeurism of the lowest order," she says. Soaps, she believes, offer some of the art that writing and acting can provide: "They have adventure and heart," she says, singling out "GL's" "compelling characters." "They're more real than what reality shows can do."

She's aware that soaps have been criticized for far-out plot devices, such as evil twins, long-lost children and bizarre coincidences. On "Guiding Light," a character drove her car off a bridge; a few years later, she turned up alive, little worse for the wear.

"Some of those outlandish things hurt the genre," she says, noting that bringing back characters was a way to placate upset audience members, who were known to fire off angry letters to networks and sponsors. "I always felt that convention [of restoring "dead" characters] always hurt soaps, because you were never invested in an event that should have been of great poignancy."

So the fact is, MAB and her trusty steeds might not be going anywhere and that is perfectly ok..but what really counts in the long run is if CBS will be there to support her and Sony. They all have to work as a team here and I don't get that feeling.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Maybe they all collectively want to drive this show to cancellation at an accelerated rate.

Sad thing is, that might actually be true too...

[MarkH]

I suspect that there is a synergy of elements (you've all named a few) that led to the current state. Did you all see Roger Newcomb's unearthed HS article (from the New Yorker) from when HS was at ATWT? As someone with no "history", it was eye-opening: Reliance on plot, strengthening of men at the cost of women, quickening of the page. The article even talks about P&G's MADD "denying" HS "sex and death" (because he over-used them). LOL

It looks to me like Alvin was one of the commenters at that site, LOL

http://www.welovesoaps.net/2009/09/flashback-hogan-sheffers-oakdale-days.html

[DRW50]

That truly was how ATWT was back then, from my memory. Everything was dark and ugly and about revenge and macho posturing. He turned Craig into a slimy sociopath with a permasmirk. No family, no friendships, no warmth, nothing but ugliness. I thought he destroyed the show. And his interviews back then were so annoying and smug, he seemed almost proud of having no real idea of how to write for the show or for not wanting to write anything that was out of his boundaries. "Men with balls", and going on about the great story where Jennifer, after spending a long time trying to wait to have sex, lost her virginity to some guy she barely knew (who happened to be her boyfriend's cousin and close friend). I think he said he thought the idea was hot. I can't remember now. And sure enough, as soon as she lost her virginity, she became some type of spiteful cow.

He used to love to say whatever he wanted and the press would rave and would comment on his awesomeness, and the actual content of ATWT would be irrelevant. It was only later, when the show was obviously so gutted (of course by then it was someone else's fault -- it's always someone else's fault when a Sheffer show sucks), that the soap press talked about things like how Eileen Fulton had asked over and over to meet with him and he'd never bothered (which would not have been so bad if he had not completely frozen out the vets in screentime and importance, the first or one of the first ATWT headwriters to do so).

All of his worst flaws have been on display at Y&R. The horrible pacing and the misogyny have never been this rank, and I thought that they were bad at DAYS and ATWT.

[MarkH]

This ageist quote is admittedly a little funny...but it does show where is priorities went...

[DRW50]

Yeah, that was more of his "humor" which he could use to talk about how much of ATWT he disliked. I know if I have to choose between the lizard king version of Craig and between people who helped make ATWT #1 for decades, I would go with the lizard king every time.