Y&R: Episodes discussion, week of September 7

[BadZoe]

I'm watching an episode on Globaltv.ca and it is friggen annoying the way they insert a commercial into the middle of a scene instead of waiting for the actual breaks.

As for the show itself, this kidnapping is just as putrid as the Katherine/Kevin one that signified the turn for the worse this show took in March/April.

TS, is so bad she can't even shed a tear, why should I?

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Agreed.

LOL! It's hilarious watching her yell and try every histrionic in the book without shedding any genuine tears. If there's one good thing that might come from what's being alleged, it's that we won't have to put up with this "acting" for too much longer.

We're getting into the fall, and nothing is changing on this show. As Carl pointed out, it's either something that's been repeated a million times in this year alone, or some rushed nonsense of a storyline.

Anyone mind telling me how people like Tom Fisher and Deacon got so interested in f.ucking art? That is a total rewrite and retcon, it's crap like that which pisses me off more than anything. The character of Deacon already had no place on Y&R and shouldn't have come in the fist place, but to re-write him from the way he generally was on B&B and then have him sexually assault Amber shows the lack of respect the people running and writing this show have for the knowledge of their fans. If they don't cut us any breaks with crap like this, then why should we cut them any?

The show is heading down the same disastrous path it started in March. I can only hope some behind the scenes changes are made before it's too late and ratings plummet much worse and the budget cuts get more severe.

[BadZoe]

I'm sure Tironi paint included the best drug known to man and Tom stole it so that he could take it out and suck on it every time he needed his fix. Deacon wants to try it.

[MarkH]

Who is Underdog in the Y&R scenario? I get that Adam is the bulldozer operator, and Ashley is the running female dog. But who is Underdog? Billy tried...even scooping her up in his arms and taking her away. But alas...it didn't work.

Of course, the psychologically fascinating piece in this story is being underplayed: Ashley's own subconscious DENIAL of her own lost baby is what is causing her to resist all treatment and hole up in the Newman crypt. This is why I don't hate that story. Watching Eileen play this woman desperately trying to keep the cloak of denial up is fascinating. I personally think this is some of the best work of her career (and that includes the Days stint).

[MarkH]

It seems to me that the lynchpin is Ryder's mom...slender woman in high heels...I think she is the sophisticated art thief. She probably lured dumb-f*cks Deacon and Tom in the same ways: Use them sexually, and make promises of big money.

That all works, except...there are growing spumors that Ryder's mom is really

.

If that is true, that would be another retcon...since that woman was of the same "socioeconomic and sophistication station" of Tom and Deacon. No way would she have become a sophisticated art thief.

[Ann_SS]

I am not surprised that MAB found yet another way to stick art into a story. MAB's art obsession which resulted in her spending money on a location shoot so Sabrina and Victor could aimlessly wonder around a museum and describe works of art was the first indication that she did not know squat about the soap opera audience and that the show would be a debacle under her. People can blame Sheffer, Hamner and Rauch, all they want, but she was the problem from jump.

[Paul Raven]

Mark,I cannot fault Eileen's performance and your interpretation of the story is interesting.

Perhaps this is the writers' intent-but there is little onscreen to support this-and therein lies the problem.There is little depth to the writing and viewers are left to join the dots.

On a day to day basis some individual performances and scenes are first rate(excluding all things Amber related)But this is a soap-a continuing drama and the show is lacking the overall flow that it needs.

And the sets and costumes need major attention.

[MarkH]

Of course, I loved those Broad Museum scenes. They were a sign for me that Y&R was about to get interesting. Alas, ratings tanked, and I fully understood the turn to "amped up" storytelling in August 2008. I even welcomed it, because the show was exciting. (Thinking of both Sabrina's death and Kay's death, the show managed to milk wonderful emotional moments out of the heightened drama).

Others here have noted that Spring 2009 was the real turn...unfortunately the Silver Chipmunk is the transition point.

When you put it all together, it does seem like during the full era of MAB's leadership, Y&R has been a show struggling to find its identity. In the beginning, that was clear and fine...she had inherited a much transformed show from LML, and she was cast into the mix during the writer's strike. Emerging out of the strike, she tried for one identity...and the ratings killed her. So, since then, we've had the amped up storytelling....which has morphed into a death obsession and darkness across the land.

In some ways, though I wish it weren't so, if Y&R sticks with the current identity (kill off people, over and over...rely on crime), I could almost respect that. Like GH, that's a particular formula. (I don't like that formula, but I respect when a show at least says 'this is what I am').

[MarkH]

Paul, I think what you write is something I have seen consistently...but I wonder why it is so?

Specifically, "the viewers are left to join the dots". This is written as a bad thing. But why? There is a popular genre of non-linear fiction that SPECIFICALLY exists to make viewers join the dots. The primetime/cable shows I love the most are the ones where you have to plumb a character's expressions and behaviors to try to figure out their backstory....as the onion is sloooooooooowly unpeeled.

As an example, this season on Breaking Bad, the season opened with odd images of burnt toys in a swimming pool. Those images recurred. It took the whole season to learn what they meant.

On the Sopranos, recurrent images of Tony's swimming pool and ducks existed as symbols. It was fun to try to figure out what they meant.

Why, on soaps, do the dots need to be connected? Why can't we assume the audience is smart enough to figure some of this stuff out?

[Vanguardian]

I don't buy Chance in the detective role either. Quite frankly, I don't buy Chance, PERIOD! This perfect life he seems to have, all the sweetness, goodness, and perfection coming from him seems a bit much. I still believe he may be ultimately another gay or bi character. Almost everything about him sets it all up to be played out. And if I'm right, you know it will be his dear 'ol daddy Phillip who'll be the one to "sniff" him out. LOL!

[MarkH]

Chance is a huge, squandered opportunity so far.

With Thom Bierdz down to virtually no appearances each month, we don't get to see the father-son thing (or the mother-son thing). Seeing Chance reconnect with his family and get to know them is the "gold" to be mined. Chance as insta-detective (MP status notwithstanding) is boring...and quickly puts him the Paul-JT-Chance category of underused square-jawed heroes.

If Chance has LAYERS, that will make him interesting.

I personally do not want to see him gay. I want to see him as boy who was [ a ] raised by a once wild-child momma who has apparently been pining for lost loves for most of her adult life...and (like some such mothers) raised an over-obedient son who is just waiting to crack; [ b ] abandoned by his bio-dad...and who (now knowing the reasons) is seething with anger he can't seem to get over; [ c ] residually traumatized by the brutal murder (following divorce) of the only father he ever really knew, Ryan; [ d ] felt abandoned by his "grandmothers", who had little to do with him except maybe send birthday checks since he went to California.

These things, coupled with potentially horrific experiences in Iraq, should give him a lifetime of layers for us to explore. If he is goody-goody, we should see that he is a seething mess underneath.

Even the Iraq thing is intriguing. Chance was born as a man of privilege. Such men, in the main, do not volunteer for miltary service (I'm going by current statistics). Those privileged men who do usually do so because of strong patriotism, being raised in a strongly conservative family with pro-military values, or (less commonly, more historically) because a record of service will aid them in future political or business aspirations. We have not seen any indication of any of these facets in virginal Chance. Indeed, they seem at odds with the kind of mother I perceive Nina as being.

So, here's the thing: If this show weren't DRIPPING in criminals and psychos, and if Change weren't the ultimate "legacy" character, I'd say this perfect-choirboy-virgin is really a serial killer. The profile actually works very nicely...the ultra-clean law-and-order cover masks the seething mess that his family produced...lurking just beneath.

In any other era, I'd be championing such a story. On this Y&R, I hope he stays squeaky clean. NOT because I find that remotely interesting, but because the show is psycho'd out for the next decade.

On that note...Sheila STAY AWAY. I love you, but you must never return. Maybe B&B can still find a place for you...

[DRW50]

How are viewers supposed to figure this out when the show itself seems to have no real idea? How many times have they shown Adam gleefully terrorize Ashley and then express remorse and say she wasn't supposed to be the target?

Have the people at this show ever really let us see great examples of slowly unfolding clues? Or do they just make it up as they go along?

Viewers are not only asked to assume the show keeps track of these stories, but also expected to assume that drastic character changes and uneven pacing is all part of some master plan.

Jana gets headaches and then it never happened. Billy and Sharon have an affair and now they don't even know the other exists. Jill works in a nail salon for no apparent reason other than asking viewers to laugh at her. Katherine tells Jill she now realizes she never loved Phillip and she took him from Jill, and this scene is never followed up on. Amber plans to write a screenplay about Katherine's life then drops it just as Phillip's return would make it the most interesting. Victor brings MJ to town for revenge plans that are never specified. For five minutes Abby mourns the death of the man who raised her then grins her way through life. Deacon is dragged over from B&B and viewers have no real knowledge of him other than being sleazy and inexplicably being obsessed with Amber and being a master of art thievery. Sharon steals or doesn't steal at random. Nick goes between Sharon and Phyllis at random. Noah wants to divorce himself from his parents yet disappears for months at a time. Rafe plans to expose Adam's crimes and instead completely forgets about his aunt as soon as he gets some Newman nads, and afterwards all but disappears.

Do the stories that do go on have slowly unpeeling onions, or is it just someone cutting a few shavings off an onion, leaving it, and then returning much later to cut a few more shavings? The stories that do go on forever, like Ashley's pregnancy or the Shick/Phick mess, just seem to repeat themselves over and over, and the plot points which are dropped and then left hanging are too horrifying to want to think about. For instance, are we supposed to interpret that knowing Ashley's doctor sexually abuses female patients means we will eventually learn he has been molesting Ashley over and over?

[MarkH]

We're in agreement. The show is not doing it well!

What I'm saying is that good shows LIVE on "connect the dots". It is connecting the dots...not having everything spelled out...that makes the show interesting for viewers.

Y&R is not presently succeeding in that...but they could.

For my money, that was the best part of early LML. "Why is Victor smelling lavender and cutting dolls?" "Why is John starting to act strangely in prison?" "Why is Brad pulling out old newspaper clippings about a murdered family in Ohio?" Man, I loooooooooooooved those days. Each day was about turning in to see this very character-based history-based mysteries unfold.

Of course, I know it went to sh*t within weeks...but for a brief shining moment I had hopes that the show would treat us as smart, play out the intriguing little everyday mysteries of ordinary life.

Again, though, I am in no way asserting that Y&R is doing that now! But I keep hoping....

[alphanguy74]

I think Mark... the reason is that many soap viewers don't have the intelligence to connect their own dots. There has always been a contingent of TV viewers in this country that want everything laid out for them in the most simplistic of ways, good vs. bad, and everything is explained as you go along. But saying that, this week and last, I ENJOYED the good vs. bad dynamic between Paul and Victor. To me, it packs more of an emotional punch than Jack vs. Victor, which is simply Bad vs. badder. If they play this right, they can glean great stuff between Victor and Traci.

[Vanguardian]

This would all be great if they went ahead and started telling it. I mean, the stuff about Iraq and everything. They really should be focusing on the character's background instead of letting him play detective and putting poor Det. Gil out of a job. LOL! Furthermore, the thing about Phillip being back from "the dead" was obviously mishandled because there was basically no real fallout and Chance has already forgiven him so there's nothing left on that note. Makes me wonder if Thom Bierdz's return was really for another reason rather than the presumed fallout that we were expecting. Chance doesn't have to be a psycho either but I at least hope to see some human flaws coming from him soon.