Search For Tomorrow Discussion Thread

[NothinButAttitude]

Right! I thought it was an elaborate set, which had me shocked until it started moving. That aside, it still was effective for its time as an "exterior" shot. 

 

With Marian, did she get killed after getting hit by the car? 

[Paul Raven]

I don't think so-I believe the story with Fred happened later.

I realized Jo went through the same thing with her next husband when Stephanie arrived,claiming Wendy was her daughter with Tony Vincente.

[Paul Raven]

Mary Stuart mentions in her book that new writers suddenly decided that Marcy Vincente was not paralyzed and had been fooling Tony and Agnes- she was critical of the plot but said happily the new writers didn't last long. I think she might be referring to Lou Scofield because elsewhere she praised Ellis and Hunt.

She also mentioned that the original plan was for Jo to marry Sam when he returned but Mary didn't feel any chemistry with George Gaynes or b/w Jo and Tony so she went to the producers and they came up with the story of Jo retreating into blindness as away of dealing with her no longer loving Sam. They then decided to turn Sam psycho and kidnap Jo etc.

[Matt Powers]

Just finished watching SEARCH’s final years. The Avila-Mayer/Braxton era eps are sparse and I filled in the blanks with old SOD synopses. The whole circus story did not really interest me- I guess it was their attempt to having a young action adventure story, which all the soaps were attempting at the time. Bela was a cartoon villain at best. There didn’t seem to be much else going on after that story concluded. It seems from the synopsis, there was a story started about Ryder and a guidance counselor that went nowhere. Sunny’s “suicide attempt” over Hogan was totally out of character and diminished her character. Same can be said of Liza and her “sterility” story, which is a slap in the face to a character who so struggled to have a baby in early years. (Not sure if this was Avila-Meyer/Braxton or early Tomlin).

I enjoyed the Estelle Kendall character (SFT’s version of Alexis Colby). Think they could have done more with her character—more along the lines of Dorian from OLTL. Having her drive Lloyd out of town was a good revenge story. At that point, Lloyd had really nothing to do and was a shell of the character he was under Haskell and Lambie (sorry Mike Brady

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), so good riddance.

The Kendall boys were just phased out. Not sure why Chase was recast as it seems he didn’t last long and just faded into the netherworld (same can be said of the Adair recast).

 

I am not sure who was responsible  (AM/B or Tomlin)for the WOMEN TO WATCH story.  If the true motive for the killings were because of the victims being profiled as a WOMAN TO WATCH, that’s one thing. But, from what I could gather, the killer stated they were killed because they randomly got in the way of his nefarious plans and all just happened to be part of the WTW.

Did Louise Schaffer want to leave? Stephanie didn’t really have a story so I could see her wanting to go. Although, I kind of get the feeling the writers wanted a victim to be a major character and she was the easiest to write off.

 

The flood story really did not having last story effect, save for everyone living at Liberty House. Ryder’s death had no significance. Had the triangle of TR/Danny/Ryder progressed to say TR and Ryder were together and his death led to TR and Danny getting together as a result of bonding through their grief. Maybe they fight their attraction and feelings as they feel it would be an affront to Ryder’s memory if they got together. Instead, TR and Danny were written out shortly after the flood-he went to CA and her to Switzerland. The other flood death was Evie’s mean old step dad that no one cried over anyway

 

I have to say I did enjoy Pam Long and Addie Walsh wrap up era. The show was quite entertaining.  The McCleary’s did take over the show (liked Maeve McGuire as Kate), but it seemed even Jo and Stu had story. When Stu hooked up with Wilma, Mary played Jo not as jealous, but more like she feared losing her close friend. I think had the show continued, maybe Stu and Wilma and Jo and the Doctor could have been good couplings. 

Quinn and Kat were fire. Too bad it came at the end of the series. Patti and Hogan were alright, but I still prefer Hogan and Sunny as endgame.

 

Sunny and Estelle’s revenge plot against Bela was entertaining, but why those two would fight over sleazy Bela is beyond me

While I can see the reason story wise to off Suzi, I still think it was a mistake. The writers killed 2 of Jo’s close relatives within a year. Perhaps Adair could’ve have been in the car and died. Jo still could’ve have been involved in the investigation.

One thing I found unnecessary that Long/Walsh did was have Cagney and Evie end up together in Jo’s vision of the future. Evie had been enamored with Quinn for so long, I guess Long decided to make her a McCleary by hook or by crook. 

 

 

 

 

 

[DRW50]

There's a Youtube account that puts up various clips of Michael Vale. I thought this clip may have already been up on Youtube (IMDB lists the episode as January 15, 1985, although an episode someone gives this date for on Dashell Millhouse's channel doesn't have this scene, or any of these characters). Anyway, I couldn't find the clip, so I'm posting in case it is something new or something from an episode that isn't up anymore.

 

[dc11786]

@Matt Powers thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Stephanie Braxton and Paul Avila Mayer are credited until late September, but I suspect there was some tweaking by Tomlin in the month before that. The Ryder/TR/Danny stuff was more character based in September. and, in my opinon, was more effective. Ryder was a gifted student and TR (who hadn't been able to read until August, 1984) felt insecure and ended up in regular classes with Danny, who had failed his second semester out in California. The guidance counselor was dropped immediately when Tomlin arrived as was the Henderson High School set and most of the TR/Ryder/Danny story. There was a brief attempt at Ryder/Adair flirtation, but that chemistry test went nowhere. 

A lot of the fall of 1985 issues stem from the turnover in both headwriters and in executive producers. No one is there long enough before there is another shift in the story. Tomlin clearly comes in with a long story for the rebuilding of the Kendall family with Chase working at the Herald, Steve returning to town, and Estelle turning out to be alive. For a brief moment, there is a solid set of characters in that grouping even if some of the actors are clunky (People give grief to Robert Wilson but Steve Lundgren was worse). Then the new EP comes in and all that story seems to be swept away. Then Steve leaves town, Chase and Adair disappear, and the hinted at return of Martin Tourneur (which I imagine was intended) was dropped. A lot of air is let out of the sails.  

Women to Watch is atmospheric to me in the way some people enjoy the Corinth serial killer on "Loving." I don't think killing Sarah hurt the show in the long run. Stephanie's murder was foolish, but Louise Shaffer's Stephanie had been so watered down by the writing, or the lack there of, that the loss doesn't feel as impactful as it should have. Lloyd Battista's Rivera character was odd. 

I felt the stand alone episodes of the flood are engaging, but the longterm impact is hard to gauge becasue again there was another new headwriter and another new executive producer. I think the idea of flood was intriguing, but in the end, the Liberty House setting may have been more limiting than helpful. Ryder's death was hard to watch, but watching the main focus of grief coming from Hogan McCleary almost seemed more painful.

I find myself unable to find any significant interest in the final months with under Addie Walsh and Pamela Long. Long is an accomplished writer, but her style doesn't work for me. I cannot put my finger on it exactly but there is a bit of emptiness in the heart and family attempts I find in her work, even though these are the things that are celebrated. Walsh's work on "Loving" isn't my favorite, though I felt her second run with Laurie McCarthy was stronger than her first with Jeff Ryder. I don't have much use for Kat. Liza going crazy over Hogan and trying to blame Patti for her miscarriage seems like a grander scale character assassination than Sunny's faked suicide attempt. I don't think Bela is strong enough to carry a triangle with Sunny and Estelle. 

Suzi was killed because the show wanted to pair Joanna Going's Evie with Cagney so they had to get rid of Suzi. I did find the scene where Jo visits Jack Bett's character at jail interesting, but not enough to keep my interest.  

This is from January-February 1985. I want to say T.R. ran away from home on New Years' Eve because Lloyd was finally going to confront Liza with the news that TR was his daughter and TR didn't want to go live with him. In the candystore, TR is looking at the Herald which I believe has the story of her disppearance which is why she reacts as she does. By March, T.R. is back home. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by dc11786

[Sapounopera]

What exactly was the Liberty House? Did everybody lose their homes and ended up staying there? Why do you think it was limiting?

[Matt Powers]

@dc11786-Thanks for fleshing out 1985 a little more . The SOD synopses mentioned Ryder being labeled as a “brain” , but no other mentions are made of the high school story.  I had no idea Ryder/Adair chem test was done-guess it wasn’t worth writing about.

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This was also the case for Steve Kendall’s return. It is mentioned once, and then the character is not discussed again. The Martin Tourneur return is mentioned, but at that point I believe John Aniston was on DAYS, so they would’ve had to recast.

So Hogan’s grieving was the main focus of the flood aftermath? WTF?? That makes no sense.

What was the writers affection for Evie? I never found the character interesting under either Colleen Dion or Joanna Going.

 

[DRW50]

Thanks. I appreciate your fleshing out of details. 

Everything I've seen of Ryder makes me wonder why they wrote him out. 

[dc11786]

I was curious so I looked it up. John Whitsell stated that the decision to kill off Ryder was "unavoidable" because he had no more story to tell and little viable relationships. From a story point of view, who was Ryder going to live with? 

In the same article, Whitsell previewed that 4 new charactes were going to be introduced in spring of 1986 to fill in some of the gaps on the canvas. One of the character was described as an older, mysterious man who was a potential love interest for Jo. This was the owner of Liberty House, but I think the story changed as I don't think the owner and Jo went anywhere romantically. 

Steve Kendall's return and exit is brief. I'm surprised he was on contract, but he was listed among the contract cast. He might have had a moment with Sunny Adamson, but the bulk of his stuff was Estelle's return, which logistically made sense. He's only on for about a month. If he even made it to 10 episodes I'd be shocked. 

The high school stuff could have gone either way. Ryder could have gone to bed with the teacher, or T.R. could have just felt that he would. I feel like this is why Tomlin tested Ryder and Adair. Their chemistry test was in the Kendall living room. I want to say it was only one set of scenes, but maybe it was two. Anyway, Adair, IIRC, was tasked with distracting Ryder while Chase was doing some snooping related to the checks being sent to San Marcos. This would be October, 1985. Ryder was going to end up working at the paper so I could see how this would have continued. The stuff with the Herald seems to fall off again fairly quickly, but so do Adair and Chase.

There was some weird sequence with El Patron, the shadowy figure who ran the island who I believed was murdered on-air without us seeing his face. I wondered if they were going to tie this into Martin's return, but it didn't happen. If we could have managed Estelle, Aniston's Martin, Peter Haskell's Lloyd, and a compeetent Steve onsceen togehter it would have been exciting.  

Sorry, Hogan's grief wasn't the focus, but his grief was the focus of Ryder's death. TR is a little upset but Hogan goes on and on. 

Liberty House was an apartment complex that was being built in Henderson at the time of the flood and was one of the only (if not only) building to survive the flood. I think it could have been limiting in that it meant the entire town was gone. Also, it's harder to explain why someone doesn't know someone or something when they all live in such tight confines. 

[Matt Powers]

@dc11786-Thanks again for all your input. The short tenures of the Steve/Adair/Chase recast—do you think they were indictive of turnover of HW/EP, poor recasts , or both? It seems ridiculous to go to the trouble of recasting just to dump the characters in quick succession.

Did they ever explain how Judge Hendersen’s house withstood the flood?

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I do agree that stuffing everyone in Liberty House was limiting. Didn’t they also use this premise on the revamped THE CITY (LOVING), where the folks who survived the Corinth Killer moved to a building in SOHO? (Off topic I know..lol).

Like the sound of a Martin/Estelle/LLoyd triangle (with the actors you mentioned). What could’ve been!

 

[robbwolff]

Do you recall the other new characters that Whitesell previewed? I do recall the owner of Liberty House from around April 1986. If I'm not mistaken, he was even seen though they never showed his face. For some reason, I got the impression that he may have been someone from Jo's past.

[j swift]

Here's the NYT article on the flood

https://www.nytimes.com/1986/02/23/arts/search-for-tomorrow-rating-are-down-and-flood-waters-are-in.html?searchResultPosition=9

For the TL:DR crowd:

The serial's executive producer, John Whitesell, who joined the staff last November, hopes that the flood disaster will stave off an even worse disaster: cancellation.

''We need to shake up the situation. 'Search' is in desperate need of refocusing,'' acknowledged Mr. Whitesell, who at 32 is considered something of a wunderkind in the daytime soap-opera field. He began his career directing ''Texas'' in 1981, then joined ''The Guiding Light,'' where last season he won an Emmy Award for best director.

'There's something about a flood that's universal,'' he added, pointing out that he had considered several disaster options before resorting to rainfall. ''It's cleansing. A hurricane or tornado would make it hard to pick up. With a flood it's not impossible to rebuild a town, and that's what the people of Henderson will be striving to do.''

Meanwhile, Mr. Whitesell is striving to rebuild ''Search for Tomorrow'' with more ''character-based scenes.'' He and Gary Tomlin will eschew the hairpin plot turns of some of the hourlong daytime serials that over the past few years have included international crime syndicates, drug-smuggling rings and buried treasure. Instead, the show's new format will deal with what is affecting the lives of its characters at home.

''There won't be many office scenes. But this is not to say people won't have jobs,'' said Mr. Whitesell, who explained that he plans to have more contiguous sets with kitchens attached to dining rooms attached to living rooms, ''so that it will be easier to follow the characters around.''

''I've been in two fires on the show, which were awfully scary,'' says Mary Stuart, who has played Jo Tourneur, the much-married co-owner of a boardinghouse in town, and has been on ''Search for Tomorrow'' since its inception. ''What's nice about the flood is that everyone is in it. We like the reason for the flood: to turn the show around.

''When you have a story with a lot of plot you have to do a lot of explaining,'' said Mr. Whitesell, who plans to cut back from 15 scenes per episode to eight or 10. ''That way we'll have a better chance of going into more depth - showing the audience how these characters feel about things. It's all about relatability.'' ''I don't think the half-hour problem is insurmountable - we're just going to concentrate on fewer plots and fewer people,'' said Mr. Tomlin, who wants to tackle racial issues and other themes generally not addressed by daytime soap operas. ''We're going to be feeling our way for a while. We're trying to get the characters to be identified with as strongly as audiences identified with the characters on the 'Mary Tyler Moore Show.' It's all about people.''

''If people don't like the flood, obviously we can't pretend it didn't happen,'' Mr. Whitesell said. ''But I'm not anticipating they won't like it. I think it will be very beneficial to the show.''

''When I took over as head writer in early 1983,'' Mr. Tomlin said, ''I was told the show would be lucky to last until September.'' A pause. ''But we're still here.''

 

The day after the flood, when they all move to Liberty House, Jo is given a hardhat and told that she will manage the place at the behest of the owner (that image was later incorporated into the opening sequence).  This sets up a mystery about the identity of the owner and why they chose Jo, but those issues are never resolved. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by j swift

[watson71]

The Henderson Flood happened in February and by the end of March John Whitesell was the EP of Another World.  Was his time at SFT just to give him EP experience with the intention of moving him to AW?  P&G always like to shuffle behind the scenes players from show to show.

[Paul Raven]

By the time of the flood revamp the show had gone through so many transitions.

What direction do you think they should have gone?

Continue with the McCleary's as the main family?

Try and rebuild the Kendalls?

Build up Stu's family eg Gary, Janet, Danny?

Bring on Patti's kids as teens?

Or just use whatever characters would work at that time?

Lots of options. What do you think?