OLTL: Discussion for the week August 10

[Vee]

I don't buy the need for "dark David." While TW did it well, the character hasn't been that since his first year or maybe even six months on the show, and even Tuc Watkins has decried that period as them "not knowing who David was yet." He became a fan favorite due to wit and humor - when Dena Higley made him serious, he was boring as hell and TW left the show as a result. I think David's comic stints have worked for the most part, but what I hated about last time was he left just as they were getting into a major story area with him being revealed as Bo's son and Matthew's brother. That has got to be explored, and there's a lot of potential for both family drama and comic relief in that material. The scenes between RSW and TW just write themselves. While I like the reality show, he also has to have something more substantial this time; they can't keep ducking a story goldmine.

I'll be the one to defend the Buddhist story, BTW. I thought it was both comic and very heartfelt and touching. Initially, no one buys David's change, and Dorian is just grifting him for the inheritance; during their courtship, she realizes she's fallen for him again, as he is, and Robin Strasser had some incredible, emotional scenes both with him and solo, as Dorian spoke to "Buddha" about her love for David. Those scenes worked, and I felt the story worked, until David left without dealing with Bo.

[MichaelGL]

I agree with everything you said here. The fall out from David learning that Dorian knew about his paternity was awesome.

[DRW50]

I thought the Dorian/David part of the story worked, the part where we saw Dorian's point of view. That was some great material for Robin Strasser. But most of what could have been amazing material when he found out about her knowing he was a Buchanan was rushed through in only a day or two, with months of jokes about karma and David bumbling around town.

The parts I didn't like were the jokes which went nowhere, and how they used the 1968 rewrite to make over a year of story irrelevant. You also had the Buchanans, who acted like smug, self-righteous jerks and went around saying David was evil and dangerous, coming out victorious. The closest they got to retribution was Viki tut-tutting them for two episodes. Then the climax had some other moments I cringed at, like Clint telling Bo how great it was that David was Bo's son and wouldn't be an heir (I don't believe Clint would be so insensitive), and the attempt by the show to let us know that Rex, not David, would always be Bo's true son.

I'm fine with David being a comic character, but you can be a comic character and still have a heart. If your character becomes a joke who disappears after a few months, then viewers are less likely to care.

[SFK]

Don't get me wrong Vee, I certainly remember "serious" David's snoozier vibe, what I mean to say is that I'd appreciate more of his earlier qualities to balance the comedic stuff. And you can still be funny and charming while exploring some deeper, darker stuff with David, I think that's how I fell in love with Dorian back then.

See, when David first came, I liked the way Tuc played him mysteriously. I don't know if what he means by "not knowing who David was" is in reference to him having not found the character yet or the fact that David was lying about who he really was. To me, David began to get annoying/"Who *is* this guy really?" around the time he got bullied into ending it with Tina and marrying Dorian and they started to really play up the whole beefcake/himbo thing. Again, *to me* it didn't seem like Tuc was comfortable in that in-between stage, he seemed most comfortable in the beginning and now, like the gray area isn't something he enjoys playing. And I guess that's where I'd like to see more of the character.

ETA: I should say though, it looks like Tuc's having a ball, so more power to him... not many people (on soaps especially) are blessed with characters that are right up their alley, I bet a lot of soap actors are jealous!

[Vee]

I don't see how David doesn't have a heart. He's always been callous, but with a heart. I don't think the prior story was made irrelevant, either; what would it have changed if David was Asa's, aside from the money? He's still a Buchanan, he still is a unique part of that family for future story, even moreso since his father is alive to interact with. As for the Buchanans' feelings for David, I don't see how that is so horrible. Llanview at large has always looked down upon David, especially the nouveau riche cowboys. That's an in-character response for them to his character. Accepting him with open arms would never be what they did, and it would have been horribly OOC for them to do so just because the audience likes him. When it comes to 'retribution' it's just not that serious, IMO, especially when David is now a permanent fixture in their family who can potentially give them hell at any moment.

[SFK]

OT: Awww, I just became a "Veteran". Do you ever sit back and wonder what you could have possibly said in a thousand posts??

[DRW50]

The entire story was about Asa's secret child and the lengths the family would go to to stop that child from taking over. They built up so much to keeping this secret from David, telling us what was at stake, and then a week after the reveal, the stakes turn out to be nothing. Just oh, never mind, he's not the heir after all.

I don't expect the family to welcome David with open arms, but seeing them talk about how evil David was and how he tried to kill Renee as an infant and what a danger he was, I thought there was too much hyperbole and unpleasant smugness to make it OK for them to get out of the story without losing anything. You have David as this great evil, while Todd, who helped cause Jessica's baby to die, gallivants around Clint's wedding and Clint doesn't say a word.

As it is now, I'm not sure what David will do to make any difference to the family. Bo doesn't care about him, and as long as David remains a joke, he won't have a reason to care about him.

There are a few moments where David has a heart, but I think because of Tuc's limited appearances, the show decided to make him more one-dimensional so viewers wouldn't care when he leaves again after a few months.

[rhinohide]

Great point Carl. Everybody on the show except Viki was behaving as though David being a Buchanan meant DOOM (DOOM! I TELL YA!). When he first found out about Jared's scam, and returned to blackmail Jared and Natalie, there was a moment of true menace and David suddenly did appear to have a dark side, and Tuc played that well. I for one found that very interesting in part because it was something we hadn't seen in such a long time. Then he got naked and strapped to a chair in the stable and the moment was lost (not that I didn't enjoy the view).

I think this latest return will be very brief, and I suspect the only menace David will present will be to the extremely camera shy. I'm not sure he and Bo will even have a conversation which makes me sad.

[Leia]

Are they serious about John and Marty? I really hope not.

Tika Sumpter is truly stunning. I've grown a little impatient with this story though. I get the point they are making and want to see more interaction between Fish and Kyle and Cristian and Layla assuming the fallout from this story directly affects them. This story isn't on enough as it is and when it is on, sometimes it feels like they are wasting so much time on the Fish and Layla plot which has the least potential. This is such a well-written compelling character driven story that I can't believe it involves four minor characters. Adding Roxy as Kyle's confidante is a stroke of genius. It partially removes her from the Morascals and gives her a new relationship to indulge in. Roxy and Kyle are great together. Though this is story is about Fish accepting his sexuality, I have to say it's Kyle's perspective on his sexuality that I find so refreshing. Kyle isn't exactly a law abiding citizen but when it comes to his sexuality and his heart he is so stalwart, frank and honest that I wonder if he should teach a lesson to some of the heterosexual characters. And Kyle and Cristian are a natural fit here. I have no idea why but I forget that they just met.

Those Viki and Dorian hospital boardroom scenes were gold. It's hard to remember the last time we saw a story setting up two incredible dynamos with diametrically opposed personalities battling in a professional capacity. It makes me salivate. I'll jump the gun and declare right now that I will be heartbroken if it doesn't go anywhere.

Stacy and her new friend are just a waste of film. Seriously. After reading Carlivati's interview about Stacy, I think he has it all wrong. Stacy isn't a love to hate character. She's a one-note platinum blonde Spencer Truman with a wonderbra. I never loved to hate Spencer. I hated him and wanted him dead. Please tell me that someone out there knows the difference!

Bo and Nora and Rachel and Greg, just come out the closet already.

[leevo64]

ITA with all of this. The problem with Stacy is twofold; the writing is the stuff of DAYS circa 1995 and the acting is atrocious. In my opinion, the moment we were supposed to start to "love to hate" Stacy was when she lost it with her dance students. That should have been the scene where we really got to understand Stacy and start to root for her, if even a little bit. But Crystal Hunt butchered it. It's a shame that Stephanie Gatschet is on AMC as Madison, because she would have made a brilliant Stacy. It's never too late, right?

[Doyen]

If anything, I'm glad that the Kyle/Fish storyline is being tempered. Gay storylines have a habit of taking over shows. At least (thus far) the writers are being careful about not letting the whole show turn into One Kish to Live, and aren't making it especially easy for agenda viewers to tune in simply for them.

BTW, I love John and Marty.

[DRW50]

Do you mean ATWT? The publicity was taken over by them for a while, but I'm not sure about the show. Meg's usually been the star of ATWT over the past few years. Meg and Paul.

Y&R just used their gay characters as barely glorified extras/plot devices, and once the shock value wore off, they made few appearances.

GL got a lot of publicity from their lesbian story, but it's usually not a main story.

The only big agenda story I think OLTL, or should I say Frons, has pushed in the past year is degradation of women.

[All My Shadows]

I wouldn't want OLTL to be all about Kyle/Oliver at all, but IMO, that story, along with some others, could use a little more airtime. Some stories are on constantly (Rex/Gigi/Stacy, Todd/Tea/Marty, Matthew vs. his parents), but there are others that seem to be rotated in and out by the week (Cristian/Layla/Oliver/Kyle, Langston/Markko, Rex's birth father). I wish that each story would at least be guaranteed two days a week, but OLTL's been having a problem of having too many storylines at a given time for years now.

[SFK]

Was anyone else totally annoyed by that producer David brought with him to town? Whose choice was it to have him smacking gum? It's like he went home after the first day and thought, "Gotta add another dimension to this character... GUM! *squeals*"

I still find it a little odd that Viki is so fond of David, he's certainly given her plenty of reasons to feel differently. I guess saving Jessica, even if in a smarmy sorta way, absolved him of all wrong doing.

I liked Greg's date, they should keep her around. What I was *really* thinking is that if the show was smart, they would have recast her as Evangeline. Not that the show NEEDS Vange right now, but with Layla lingering on the vine all this time and finally getting a piece of a storyline, Evangeline could be utilized at this time... she could be a rival or an ally to Tea or Elijah, she could be involved in multiple tri-/quadr-/quintangles with Greg/Rachel/Shaun, Tea/Todd/Blair/John, Christian/Layla/herself... oh well.

[leevo64]

The only instance of a gay storyline taking a show over is the fan reaction to Luke and Noah, which was out of hand and, if you watch the story, TOTALLY overrated. AMC has always given Bianca a good amount of airtime without having her eat up the show, and Y&R's attempt at stories with gay themes is at best a failure and at worst a disaster. As for Olivia/Natalia, the story seems to be getting a lot of press but they're certainly not the cetner of the show.

I agree with you, though, that Kyle and Oliver are getting a good amount of airtime. I mean, the closest connection either of them have to the history of the show is Rebecca Lewis, who's gone. Hopefully the writers will figure out a way to tie these two into the fabric of Llanview a little more.