Y&R: Episode Discussion for the week of August 10

[Y&RWorldTurner]

If Maria can't figure this out on her own and she needs someone to help her, that's her problem and shows her incompetence and she shouldn't be the one running this show.

There were pacing problems with her long before Sheffer arrived, so I don't give him all the blame. At the end of the day, Maria is the main HW, the CO-EP, and the one married to one of the owners of this show. No one is forcing to do anything she doesn't want to do. For the record, I think both her and her team of hacks need to be fired.

What they should have done long ago was seek out an experienced storyteller for this show, or try to bring back one of Bill Bell's writing proteges to write this show, which is what Bill wanted all along. He didn't want his inexperienced daughter in law to run his show, he wanted one of his proteges to do that.

Was their any point in replacing Alden and Smith? I think the show has been worse off without them. At least they generally took better care of this show than anyone currently running it.

[DRW50]

Sheffer always managed to be praised for the best of his shows while the worst is someone else's fault. He got this praise because he came to ATWT and did some shock value stories. Most likely, the co-head writer, Carolyn Culliton, was the true talent behind ATWT's very brief return to form, but because Hogan was fresh blood and because he loved to talk to the soap press (and he gave a lot of interviews which shed light into his misogyny and his hostility towards men who don't act like brutes), he got the spotlight.

The only good thing about his Y&R run for me is that finally his many flaws as a writer, flaws that gutted two soaps and are now gutting a third, are finally being pinned on him, not on Goutman, or on Corday, or on Passante.

I agree with you about Adam. He will probably stay around as a one-note psycho for a long time.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Exactly, I agree,

It's too depressing to see how far this writing regime has sunk this show, in so little time too.

[lovely_m]

I think Adam was also ruined to make Victoria look like a better business woman.

It's sad that Amber is considered more important to the show than actual leagcy characters. They won't fix Billy, he's seen as one of the things being done right.

[DRW50]

And we see how well the portrayal of Victoria the smart businesswoman turned out. They built up such a good story of Nick and Victoria becoming estranged from Victor and the everything was swept away by the forged diary. Now their relationships are completely irrelevant.

I think they made a token effort to try to address the criticism of how little Billy cared about his family, but it's very forced and comes much too late in their stories. The involvement in Colleen's story was especially laughable and self-absorbed.

[Juliajms]

In comparison to the rest of the show, he is. That has a lot more to do with the acting than the writing though, imo. I feel the same about Chloe. EH is doing well, but there isn't a lot of writing to support her, her natural charisma is just shining through to save the day.

[Cat]

At risk of going against the prevailing anti-Billy sentiment on this board, I thought his scenes with Ashley were very well acted. I loved that there was an Abbott attempting to step in and do something, and actually thought Billy's concern was utterly sincere. The problem was the end. No way would anybody leave Ash at the ranch, distraught and hallucinating dead people. Watching Ashley go through this torment... I actually have stomach cramps watching her because I keep thinking that her miscarriage MUST still be affecting her body even if she still thinks she's pregnant. The way ED is playing this, it is like deep down she knows that she lost the baby.

If that's not bad enough, we get the whole Nikki + Victor = true wuv 4EVA stuff and Ashley is the "wicked witch" (to quote Vamptoria's Friday dialogue. Is this woman 35 or 5?). DOOL is more subtle when it comes to promoting its Destiny Couples.

Chloe and Chance are a refreshing bit of sweetness. I also liked Chloe and Mac's scenes. There is somethng of a "frenemy-ship" developing there.

Doug Davidson stole the whole show yesterday. If only TPTB would invest in his character one-fifth of what they give to TGVN. I still wish Nikki & Paul had a proper chance. He is the one character who could conceiveably give the old goat a run for his money.

[DRW50]

This is the main reason the scenes did little for me. They were a retread of months ago when Jack tried to get Ashley to leave and she didn't. This is old stuff. I feel like Billy was shoehorned into this because they finally realized just how cut off he was from his family and how unsympathetic he'd become. I'm tired enough of him that I still can't work up a good reaction. Even Billy Miller implied around the time of the Colleen board seat confrontations last month that he doesn't believe Billy cares about Ashley.

[ian]

Yes! And ironically it wouldn't be in a big high-faluting business or over-the-top Alpha male thing, it'd be that Paul got Nikki's heart by being there for her and treating her right. I think for her to have some sort of connection to Victor isnt unreasonable given their past but there's a big line between acknowledging your past with the man you've been married to for 20-odd years and had two kids with (who are both in their 30's yet were born within your 20 year marriage... go figure)... between that and im going to break off an engagement because im still a jellyfish for a guy that treats me like sh!t and wastes no opportunity to tell me how terrible of a person I am and blame me for everything that goes wrong in his life.

Nikki is very deeply affected by Victor's abuse, and it's changed her entire outlook on life, and to be put in a situation where he is constantly right, still, is just degrading her. I think that as far as treatment goes, Victor always treated Ashley far better than Nikki and if she is happy with him (I'm talking pre-this year bullsh!t, pre-this-go-round)... then they should go in that direction. I always liked Vashley as a concept, as characters together because in an ideal world, Ashley would have more of a backbone and not LET Victor treat her like he treats Nikki and he wouldnt have the balls, because not only is she a strong woman, but her family would bring onto him a world of pain. <- that's the dynamic I miss.

[Cat]

Great post!

I like(d) Vashley, too, because at the time there was something sweet and tender about the way they treated each other. Plus, as the years went by, they gave up their chance to be together and so there was always unfinished business between the two of them. No closure.

I would LOVE it if Ashley had followed through on her anger last week and given him what-for for dicking her family out of Jabot AGAIN. I hope she gives him what-for when she figures out that she had nothing to do with Zapato's death -- and Victor knew it! I'm kind of pissed that at the very moment that Ashley NEEDS her husband and family, Victor is busy making cow-eyes at Nikki and Jack is bailing Sharon out of jail. Damn. Even the blackmailed doctor is looking out for Ash more than her loved ones.

As for Nikki, I think she is having a major identity crisis. For most of her adult life, Nikki has been refashioned by Victor. He is her Pygmalion -- he took this "stripper" as he often reminds her and turned her into the blonde trophy wife and society matron. Nikki has played the role of Mrs. Newman for so long that she feels it is her, it is real and she cannot let it go. Perhaps her feelings for Paul confuse her because it reminds her of a time before Victor -- a time of struggle and uncertainty. Victor = safety but he also = dependence.

[lovely_m]

I'm not anti-Billy Abbott I'm more anti-the writing of Billy Abbott. The problem with Billy isn't the acting, even though Miller does snarky bad boy better than sincere care about the family. The only reasons I like his scenes with Ash is because someone was trying to get her out, I'm suprised that he didn't succeed with this writing team. Other than that they felt forced and out of the blue. Does anyone get the feeling that after they had him sleep with Mac, they finally decided to put him in scenes with his family. He's done with one story let's put him in another.

At this rate Ashley's legacy is going to be the crazy lady who always loses a baby, Victor's doormat and second choice, and the sperm stealer.

In all fairness a lot of stuff for Billy has been retreads. Remember when Adam lost his job at Newman and had to beg everyone for a job and couldn't get any offers? Later Billy lost his job at Jabot and had to ask everyone for a job and couldn't get any offers. It was the only time that Neil got to keep his CEO position.

[ian]

Yes! If we can understand these things about the characters why can't TIIC??

It's playing the character, HUMAN beats that we are missing that this show used to ALWAYS have. A lack of what always set it apart is actually bringing it waaaay down worse than the other soaps. Go figure. You expect a higher level and once the higher level is gone its so ingrained into the show that without this necessary factor, the show suffers greatly for it. I don't think Y&R is ever mediocre, I think it's always fantastic or just terrible.

[lovely_m]

I would be better if they channeled his Hope side better.

Carl don't put that out there! Next thing we know Rhianna is going to come back and put JT in a cage or Isabella is going to get out of the looney bin and put Paul in the cage.

[Cat]

Worse -- we'll have Michelle Stafford as "Pheila" in the cage.

[Soapsuds]

On the next episode of "The Cosby Show" ...Victor , Ashley and family flush Zapato down the toilet during his service....

Really?? A dog service on Y&R??????