Y&R: Week of May 11, 2009

[MarkH]

I don't really think "rationalizing" ("analyzing", "interpreting", "discussing", "considering", etc.) to be a bad word. The definition of "rationalize" is "make sense of" or "make reasonable"...and I think that's what we're supposed to do with fiction.

I don't talk as much about other shows because I don't watch them to the same degree. I do watch B&B daily--have from the beginning--but you would not accuse me of being a "fanboi" there. That show is largely written on a whim, and so it cannot be "made sense of" or "made reasonable".

The other shows...I really only keep one eye on them. The ABC soaps stopped being daily viewing for me by 1983, and Another World by 1986. So, I have much less knowledge about them at this point, and much less investment.

Do you really watch all of them? I guess I don't understand the "leeway" comment. What am I apparently "unforgiving" of on other shows?

[Y&RWorldTurner]

If Y&R tried half the stuff B&B does, you would be more forgiving, that's all...

[MarkH]

Maybe...but the point is that Y&R doesn't do MOST of the crap B&B does. Not for the most part... There have been periods, of course...and this might even be one of them (P3)...but not for the most part. But again, I think having a 36-year "relationship" with a show means that, while not putting your brain in "park"...you're more forgiving. Otherwise, the "relationship" wouldn't have lasted that long.

Anyway, back on topic, sort of...I can't believe that this thread has gotten as long as it has. I think that is a testament to the show...it seems to me there is increased Y&R traffic in a lot of places. The show is doing something right.

I'll follow the ratings for last week and next with great interest.

[MoTheGreat]

They don't even know who Lily true love is. Cane downfall was hooking up with Lily in the first place.

[JimTolkien]

Again another pretty good post. And I think you are dead on about this!!! This is where I want and would like to see the direction of the writing for Phick, they have already taken the first steps. I want to see them as individuals doing their own thing and coming together as a couple. They don't have to be intertwined or joined at the hip in everything they do, that's why they even lost a bit of fire for me. However with that said, I am ready for some TURBULENCE. Btw, notice Katherine/Murphy (now one of my favorite couples as well) has the same wedding day as Phick (that's not a bad sign, is it )

I too love Joshua Morrow's portrayal of Nick...I feel like Nick could be my brother only that I don't have a billionaire father!!

I am so excited for summer. I hope MAB & Co. has some great stories to tell.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

BLAH to you Phick fanbois.

[Paul Raven]

Wow,so many posts and interesting comments being made.By the time I get around to responding,another few pages have been added.

I think with Phyllis/Nick/Sharon,they are trying for a throwback to the great triangles of the 60's/70's like Steve/Rachel/Alice and Bill/Mickey/Laura which went on for years and characters were victims of fate and misguided decisions etc.

The difference is that today's faster pace means that crucial moments are happening much quicker so the bouncing back and forth seems less compelling.That and the overall quality of the writing.

One other factor for me is the overall isolation of this and other stories.I want to see more character crossover.Noah has been pretty much non existent these past few weeks,when his viewpoint should be presented.Does he want his dad with Phyliis or Sharon?Phyllis could be getting in Noah's ear to get him on side.

What about Victor?Does he have any idea about the extent of his son's marital woes?Surely,in his arrogant fashion,he would be voicing an opinion.Perhaps in light of his recent history,he could advise Nick to go back to Sharon and Nikki could root for Phyllis.Then you have Victor and Nikki in conflict.

What about Doris?Heartfelt talks to Noah?Maybe Phyllis runs into her at GCAC and they have words?

This is the type of thing that is lacking to me in this and other stories.It doesn't have to mean endless conversations,but well written scenes that add another layer to the plots.Isn't it often the case in real life that well meaning friends and relatives often try to help(!) and complicate things?

[cara mia]

What's interesting about Shick vs. Phick is Sharon vs. Phyllis. Both pairings have chemistry. Shick is more to my taste but I see the appeal of Phick, too. IMO, viewers get off on Shick sex because it's a f-u to Phyllis just as viewers get off on Phick sex because it's a f-u to Sharon. Even though Phick is currently married, the threesome still reads as Sharon, the suffering wife, Nick, the good man led astray, Phyllis, the skank homewrecker OR (if you like Phick), Sharon, the whiny soul destroying ex, Nick, the good man guilted by the ex, and Phyllis, the brave woman who saved her man from darkness. I take a third view -- that Nick is basically a douchebag passively aggressively playing two women against each other. I might be in the minority though.

[alphanguy74]

Speak for yourself, honey.... I know of a precious few who will turn down PIE!

[Sylph]

A bit of (my) snobbery, of course: you are surely aware of the billion schools of thought on how to criticise a text (a text can be a play, a screenplay, soap story or episode... you know): Structuralism, Post-Structuralism, New Criticism... What I want to say is: yes, you are allowed to believe in your own system (making sense of and filling the blanks), but there's a plethora of other systems, too.

You are awfully harsh and condemning of many, many other shows. Shame I didn't save or bookmarked some of your posts in that fashion. Not only do you condemn, especially GH, you use every possible opportunity to elevate Y&R. And it misfires badly every time.

Y&RWorldTurner, would you do me a favour and open a new weekly thread?

[MarkH]

Yes, part of Morrow's appeal to me in the Nick role is that I know that guy. Many of my male friends are that guy. The character feels so utterly authentic.

Again, it's all in Morrow's eyes, when he is with his ladies. That's where you see the world of hurt and confusion and lust and...

Yes, modern pacing is a real problem in a classic triangle like this. But like those great examples you cite above...each piece of the triangle can be "rootable".

Yes. Nikki too. She WORKS with them, but has been largely uninvolved. Particularly with Noah, played by a great young actor, it really diminishes the emotional implications of the tale. If you look at that Youtube above, you'll see that they have been very consistent in scripting a good Noah-Phyllis relationship. Thus, he should be really torn, loving his mother but -- in some ways -- preferring Phyllis (his "friend"). Also, Phyllis is hot, and Noah should not be immune to that. We should see him smile and just dig her as a chick...glad his dad is with someone so hot.

This runs in line with what we were talking about the other day...the lack of simple conversations...all character, little plot. I'm thinking those are on hold for May sweeps ("action action action ratings"), but maybe between June and November they'll give us more of that?

Now, the mark of an excellent poster is one who can see all side, even if he/she has a perspective.

So it is, again, with cara mia.

I will say that though my first current preference is for Phick, after Nick had sex with Sharon a second time, I moved somewhat into that douchebag camp myself.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Already done.

[Sylph]

Thank you!

[MarkH]

This would be less jaw dropping if "harsh" and "condemning" weren't your modus operandi!!! Daytime is "a garbage" and all that.... It is also not a true statement where I am concerned, which is why I wonder what goal is being served by falsely depicting me thus. Sure, I'm positive and negative, like all of us...but what's the point in bringing it up? I'm trying to figure out the goal.

Regardless, for the sake of our colleagues here, can I urge you to move the personal criticism of posters to PM, and not clutter these threads? Let's not infect the next weekly thread with this ad hominem sh!t, okay?

Bringing the thread back to Y&R relevance...

I was just over at usenet, and now THEY have started an anti-Mac/anti-Clementine Ford thread. That almost never happens. This actress is really not succeeding with a lot of fans. Of course, over there, they hate Nina too.

[Sylph]

1. Precisely. You are accusing me of the same thing you're doing. I am not at all "falsely depicting" you, other people noticed it, too. All I'm sayin'... And lets not start anything about joining the Sylph haters gang and fake and all that.

2. I never said it was garbage, it was more thinking aloud kind of thing...

This is NOT personal criticism. I was just wandering and wanted to get to the bottom of this (which is impossible, I'll stop attempting to) and in this thread. I also felt that these kind of rationalisations, spoilers, dream casting and Sharon Case's hair talks were cluttering this thread which is not about the weekly episodes at all. There. It's about a whole lot of other sh!t. So you can be p!ssed all you want, you brought it upon yourself.

Of course. She sucks and I hope she'll be out in no time. Together with Mac dies storyline.