1 hour ago, Contessa Donatella said:

I always thought Pat was the oldest, then Russ & Alice the baby. When the show began wasn't she 16? 

I believe she was around 16, but I'm pretty sure Russ was even younger when AW began.   When Russ was sorased and Sam Groom assumed the role, it seemed that Russ jumped ahead of Alice in age.  But as I said, I'm not sure that was ever really confirmed in the scripts.  

4 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

When I was watching AW in the 1970s, I sort of assumed Russ was the middle child. No reason for this except Beverly Penberthy played Pat as so mature, I thought Pat was the oldest.  So the birth order is vague -- unless somebody can find it mentioned in a script.  

According to the synopses on the AWHP from 1964, it is clear that the order then was defined as Pat, Alice, Russ.

Pat was in college and there was a lot of time devoted to planning her 21st birthday party.

Alice was graduating from high school (as valedictorian) and planning to attend art school.

Russ was flunking his sophomore year of high school and wanted to drop out rather than go to summer school.

http://www.anotherworldhomepage.com/aw1964.html

By 1967 Russ was accepted into the internship program at the hospital and Alice mentioned in passing to Lenore that she had just turned 20. 

http://www.anotherworldhomepage.com/aw1967.html

Edited March 9, 20241 yr by Xanthe
Link

5 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

But when Russ returned from medical school as an adult, lots of fans assumed he was older than Pat.

Thank you for this bit of grace, good to know that I was not alone in my ignorance.

But, it was Donna, Peter, then Nicole, correct?

4 minutes ago, j swift said:

Thank you for this bit of grace, good to know that I was not alone in my ignorance.

But, it was Donna, Peter, then Nicole, correct?

Donna, Peter, Nicole and Marley (for at least 18 years) 🙂

11 minutes ago, j swift said:

Thank you for this bit of grace, good to know that I was not alone in my ignorance.

But, it was Donna, Peter, then Nicole, correct?

Kathleen and MJ changed order. When Kathleen first arrived MJ was the eldest, but when they added the prostitution retcon they made Kathleen the eldest. 

I know this is not the place for fan-fiction, and I'm not promoting that.  But have you ever imagined scenes which would connect early AW characters with later characters?  Perhaps characters so far apart in time, you had never really imagined them existing in the same world?  And would there be a character who could provide a bridge between the earlier and the later? 

Here's one example: Pat and Lenore (who have stayed in contact over the years) decide to meet-up in Bay City.  They go to lunch at a restaurant and, after a few minutes, Rachel and Felicia walk in.  Rachel recognizes the two women, and . . .

I'm not asking anyone to continue this scene.  But have you ever imagined how early, fairly believable characters might interact with later characters who were more over the top? And could it be presented as real and believable, without resorting to cheap humor?  For example: Marianne Randolph Halloway and Cass Winthrop?  Mary Matthews and Felicia Gallant?  John Randolph and Wallingford?   

Or was the reality of these characters (from different eras) simply too far apart for them to ever truly connect or exist in the same universe?  

20 minutes ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

I know this is not the place for fan-fiction, and I'm not promoting that.  But have you ever imagined scenes which would connect early AW characters with later characters?  Perhaps characters so far apart in time, you had never really imagined them existing in the same world?  And would there be a character who could provide a bridge between the earlier and the later? 

Here's one example: Pat and Lenore (who have stayed in contact over the years) decide to meet-up in Bay City.  They go to lunch at a restaurant and, after a few minutes, Rachel and Felicia walk in.  Rachel recognizes the two women, and . . .

I'm not asking anyone to continue this scene.  But have you ever imagined how early, fairly believable characters might interact with later characters who were more over the top? And could it be presented as real and believable, without resorting to cheap humor?  For example: Marianne Randolph Halloway and Cass Winthrop?  Mary Matthews and Felicia Gallant?  John Randolph and Wallingford?   

Or was the reality of these characters (from different eras) simply too far apart for them to ever truly connect or exist in the same universe?  

I really love that idea, especially because AW seems very divided between the '60s and '70s (family-oriented with eccentric outsiders like Liz or Iris) and the early '80s to the end of the show (outsider characters, like Vicky, Felicia, Jake, Cass, Carl, etc. becoming the core of Bay City - the road paved by Rachel, I suppose).

Marianne and Cass just missed each other by a few months, didn't they? 

I sometimes wonder how a character like Lahoma would have reacted to someone like Iris. If it would have been along the lines of the relationship Iris had with Clarice. 

Edited March 9, 20241 yr by DRW50

29 minutes ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Here's one example: Pat and Lenore (who have stayed in contact over the years) decide to meet-up in Bay City.  They go to lunch at a restaurant and, after a few minutes, Rachel and Felicia walk in.  Rachel recognizes the two women, and . . .

 

As we merrily bounced along from one regime change to the next regime change I never ever would have been surprised at some new old character appearing. 

However, I think they were pretty clueless when it came to mining show & character history. 

4 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

I'm not asking anyone to continue this scene.  But have you ever imagined how early, fairly believable characters might interact with later characters who were more over the top? And could it be presented as real and believable, without resorting to cheap humor?  For example: Marianne Randolph Halloway and Cass Winthrop?  Mary Matthews and Felicia Gallant?  John Randolph and Wallingford?   

I honestly feel like this is a false dichotomy. Cass and Felicia were around for such a long time and although they had many moments of high comedy which I know you don't like, they also had serious relationships and heartfelt emotions and tragedies. Wallingford wasn't around for as long but he too was such a good and concerned friend that I have no difficulty imagining him interacting in a human way with so-called believable characters. The key would be the writing and the nature of the relationship. Why are these people in each other's orbit and how do they feel about it? 

Probably the only time I felt warm toward early John Hudson (pre-Lemay and Sharlene) was when Wallingford talked seriously with him. 

@Mona Kane Croft Is it true that in general you don't like any of the AW comedy? Not the Cass-Felicia-Wally hijinks? How about Vivian? Felicia & Wally crashing a truck into a restaurant? 

12 hours ago, Xanthe said:

According to the synopses on the AWHP from 1964, it is clear that the order then was defined as Pat, Alice, Russ.

Yes.

It was somewhat annoying that TPTB just threw established history (the siblings' ages) out the window, but when Russ was aged and suddenly became the second oldest Matthews offspring, at least we got the excellent Sam Groom to play the role. His version of the character was wonderful; strong, compassionate, ethical and noble, a moral hero who never came across as a simp or a goody-goody.

Russ had to have been a saint to stand by Rachel for so long, considering all her atrocious behavior. Yes, he did get pushed beyond his limit and spanked her one time, but trust me...she deserved it.😝

 

30 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

It was somewhat annoying that TPTB just threw established history (the siblings' ages) out the window, but when Russ was aged and suddenly became the second oldest Matthews offspring, at least we got the excellent Sam Groom to play the role. His version of the character was wonderful; strong, compassionate, ethical and noble, a moral hero who never came across as a simp or a goody-goody.

Russ had to have been a saint to stand by Rachel for so long, considering all her atrocious behavior. Yes, he did get pushed beyond his limit and spanked her one time, but trust me...she deserved it.😝

 

And, we know how impossible it is to live with a saint. 

And, please tell me you are making a bad joke about him physically assaulting her? 

35 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

And, we know how impossible it is to live with a saint. 

And, please tell me you are making a bad joke about him physically assaulting her? 

No, Russ really did take Rachel over his knee and spank her. I've always wondered if that was written in the original script, or if the director came up with the idea, since Rachel was being such a  monstrous b*tch in the scene. (No, that doesn't justify Russ spanking her.)

Nowadays, of course, we know better. A heroic male lead would never be allowed to hit his wife, but social mores were vastly different in the "olden days".

Even Ricky Ricardo spanked Lucy on I LOVE LUCY.

(People never, ever believe me about this, but here it is in black and white.)

 

27 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

No, Russ really did take Rachel over his knee and spank her. I've always wondered if that was written in the original script, or if the director came up with the idea, since Rachel was being such a  monstrous b*tch in the scene. (No, that doesn't justify Russ spanking her.)

 

No, I wasn't doubting that he did so. You said 

Quote

Yes, he did get pushed beyond his limit and spanked her one time, but trust me...she deserved it.

 

And that is the part I was hoping was a bad joke. 

4 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

No, I wasn't doubting that he did so. You said 

And that is the part I was hoping was a bad joke. 

Come on Contessa. People have fought other people on this board so that you can express your thoughts and your opinions. Leave @vetsoapfan alone, we can't afford to lose such valuable posters by driving them crazy all the time. I am sure you and I are old enough to get what he is saying. No need for drama.