The Politics Thread

[Khan]

 

Yep.

 

marceline was right: these people voted for "change," yet have no idea what that really means.

[Juliajms]

And a large number of major donors, not just in Florida. It seem obvious to me that after the Holocaust the number one priority of the Jewish people is having and protecting a homeland.  No matter what.  This tends to be a topic where I keep my mouth shut in real life and discuss only very lightly online. As far as I can see there is not a good solution.  Eventually there will almost certainly have to be two states and that will almost certainly lead to a terrible war. I bet if we could check in on planet Earth in 200 years this conflict will still be going on.

[GMac]

I think you'd be right, J.  

 

Maybe im simplifying this, but there is room for homelands for both Jews and Palestinians.  Great example is the Sinai, it's been relatively dispute-free for almost 40 years.  Granted, the distrust wasn't as deep between Egypt and Israel, but there has to be a way forward here.  

 

The US and the UN have to approach this without playing favorites and come to some iron clad agreements.  Actually the US should stay completely neutral.  Let the UN get the work done.

 

Im not naive, this won't happen in my lifetime. 

 

[Juliajms]

^ Israel doesn't trust the UN. Even the Secretary General just came out and said that an unfair number of resolutions have been brought against Israel and I don't think anyone would call him pro Israel. And let's be real, the United States would never leave it's fate in the hands of the UN, so why would any other nuclear power?   The population of Gaza is exploding, so something is going to have to happen, I just don't think there is any solution that leads to peace. I hope I'm wrong. The occupied territories are a small space full of children. I hate to even think about what a large scale war would mean for them, after we saw the carnage summer of 2014 brought.

 

Meanwhile instead of leaving bad enough alone Trump is determined to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem. Obviously, I'm pro Israel, but why on Earth stir the pot? I imagine Kushner is behind this. Maybe they want to push the conflict forward so he is President when it happens, I don't know. It's pure folly from my perspective.

 

As to Carl's article, wow. I had no idea things were getting that ugly in the Florida democratic party.  I'm getting less hopeful that we can get our s*it together and rebound from this loss anytime soon.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Juliajms

[DRW50]

A bit on the far right gaining more power in Germany; the more interesting part is some of the quotes from the party's supporters, some of whom are eerily similar to complaints in the US (about issues like trade).

 

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/12/germanys-far-right-rises-again-214543

 

I felt a bit queasy when I read those smug Amazon reviews for Ivanka Trump's boots - lots of hee hee and ha ha about how they would be perfect for Berlin in 1933 (presumably this was written before the Berlin attacks), and other cutesiness that blithely references Nazis. I wonder how many of those people know about what's going on in Germany now. 

 

I'm wary of just how many out there on social media are more concerned with getting retweets, likes, shares, and upvotes to actually care about what's going on. It's easy to be precious and adorable, not so easy to actually deal with the policies that are going to cripple so many people who don't have the time to read your tee-hee commentary. 

Edited December 22, 2016 by DRW50

[Juliajms]

How the Republicans are afraid of Trump and his minions. I find this article very disturbing.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/donald-trump-congress-republicans-232800

[DramatistDreamer]

 

The quest for likes is a concern, OTOH, I couldn't imagine where we'd be, if we didn't make a place for satire and humor, especially when sh*t hits the fan!

 

Even if you look at times of war and privation, there is a place for comedy, humor and biting satire.

 

Amazon has a, er, "tradition", I guess you could say of mocking things and aspects of society that are backward, incorrect and just plain wrong.

 

As a "lady-writer" myself, I thought the reviews on the specially made 'Lady Pens' for 'Lady Writers' made especially for our incapable hands (too soft to pick up an ordinary pen or do the equal work of a man) were biting, sarcastic and yes, funny.  It made fun of the plight of women writers, which is plight caused by sexist, ridiculous standards about the supposed limitations of 'female writers', comediennes, etc. (thanks Jerry Lewis).  

By mocking, it showed this sexist mindset to be ridiculous as are the people who represent that mindset.

 

Sorry @Vee but I took it a completely different way reading these mock reviews as I did when reading about the pink Lady Pens.

Sometimes satire is done clumsily and poorly and the intention doesn't come through clearly- I don't see this as one of those times though.

 

And yes, I have read about what's going on in Germany and of course, it is point of concern (as is Syria, Nigeria, the Sudan). Hopefully the majority of Germans will be a bit smarter than Americans in their voting choices (after all, Austria rejected their far-right candidate). We can only hope at this point.

Edited December 22, 2016 by DramatistDreamer

[DRW50]

 

 

For me it's a thin line joking and winking about the Holocaust and the runup to it, because it trivializes genocide and it gives huge amounts of space to make the people you're against seem better than they really are. I'm sure some of the reviews were hilarious and didn't do that type of thing, but the very first one I saw was going on about Berlin 1933, and it left a bad taste in my mouth. A lot of the Ivanka protests, while justifiable given that she played a major role in her father winning and will now continue to work for/with him while still shilling her products, have a self-sabotaging tone, because they try so hard to be cute that the point being made seems much less important. I was reading an article about the letters or notes people are leaving to Ivanka, and some of them are so honest and powerful, and then you have others that essentially say, "I don't like your father...or your clothing line." It makes the whole thing into a joke. 

[Vee]

Did I comment on this? Why was I mentioned?

[DRW50]

I think DramatistDreamer just accidentally put your handle instead of mine.

[DramatistDreamer]

 

Oops sorry. Clearly, I wrote this in a hurry.

 

@DRW50 Points taken.

 

 

Speaking of the use of humor in the midst of a what could potentially be a winter of discontent. 

 

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[DRW50]

No - I was taking it too seriously. The Berlin attack just rattled me. I don't mean to make anyone here feel bad for enjoying the reviews and humor. 

Edited December 22, 2016 by DRW50

[Vee]

And now, something that will really rattle Trump. Panic ensues!

 

And yes, this will shake him up. Trump is not like other GOPers; he lusts for fame and adoration from the mainstream.

[Khan]

 

On the one hand, I love the fact that Trump Nation continues to browbeat even the GOP.  As we have said countless times, Trump only exploited (and continues to exploit) what was always true about the Republican party; and if they now found it impossible to control him OR his minions and followers, then they have only themselves to blame.

 

On the OTHER hand, if Trump Nation can intimidate into submission and/or silence people who are supposed to be their allies, then how will the rest of us ever stand a chance against them?  

 

And I STILL find it ironic AND disturbing that Trump Nation, in fact, constitutes a relatively small minority of citizens in this country.  It really will take an act of God (or another national tragedy) to stop their growth and influence.

 

Here's what I think:

 

At some point, the Republicans who aren't part of Trump Nation will have to sit down with the moderates, the liberal progressives, the independents and so forth, and call some sort of truce.  It might not be anything as formal as officially leaving the Republican party and either joining the Democratic party or forming a new, third party.  But all sides will have to swallow their respective prides, concede this-or-that platform principle and then ban together in the name of silencing the Trumpkins, the alt-right and others of their ilk -- online, in the media, on the Senate and House floors, and in the overall court of public opinion.

 

Separately, no other group can stand up to Trump Nation and win -- and groups like that, IMO, thrive on the divisiveness of their opponents.  But if the establishment wing of the GOP and their affiliates can somehow coalesce (sp?) with those on the other side of the metaphorical aisle, then there might be some hope yet the rest of this country.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Khan

[marceline]

 

 

The problem is that there simply aren't any decent Republicans anymore. Sure you've got John McCain and Lindsay Graham at least trying to be sane but any member of the GOP who might be willing to stand up has been neutered or drummed out of the party entirely. Plus with the Russian hacking don't think for one second that a lot of these people aren't being blackmailed into silence. I think our only real hope is some kind of massive backlash in 2018 and given the rampant stupidity and learned helplessness from people on both sides I'm not hopeful that can happen.