The Politics Thread

[Maxim]

Well... I watched. And... I just don't know what to say. Some times I can't say anything. 

But that is saying a lot. 

[Maxim]

A mob of pro-Russian far-right nationalist maniacs just attacked the director of the Bulgarian National Theatre in front of the theatre... Physically attacked him in A MOB. He was crying inside... after getting hit... live on tv... I can't believe what I was seeing. The entire Bulgarian media is showing it right now... I knew that these psycho... far right maniacs will get super activated in the entire world... yesterday.... but I didn't know this will happen. I'm shocked and just watching the news right now.  

 

[Vee]

My despair comes and goes. History is cyclical, which is what I've always told people in low times like these before. Things come around again. What concerns me most is the damage that will be done to not only people but our fundamental system and institutions in the next 2-4 years, and beyond that how we can begin to combat and counter what is now in place in terms of the media/information war. As I've said, Democrats should've countered Fox long ago with a real media push vs. constantly going begging to the Times or CNN for fair treatment they won't get - too many of them still think the Beltway press are their friends. It's going to take a generation at least to reeducate the youth, and it may take longer to untangle what this crew can do to our government, if it survives. If it only takes a cycle or two and they don't then immediately flip red again the next time folks get bored, I'll call that a miracle.

I don't expect all of it to get better in my lifetime at this point, though it sure would be nice to have some of it back. I have to believe it will for the future generations. Maybe I'm being too defeatist for the short term; I hope so. I believe in the spirit of the country when it's at its best, in the ideals. I don't need to believe in the country as it is today to still believe in those things. I'm just so ashamed that my mother is probably living out her last years with it having disgraced her service and hard work and her father's service like this. That's what I can't stomach.

I'll probably try to stay for a long while assuming she remains in good health. I'm not ruling out just leaving. I will keep an eye on things in a detached way but I can't engage in the same way right now, at least not atm. Maybe that will change if things change. But that's how I square things in my mind. I believe in what I can and I leave the rest, and I hope down the road we get better. In the meantime the people that asked for this can choke on what they bought.

And if there is a female president in my lifetime, I'll remember Kamala maybe even more than Hillary. Because boy did she deserve it. I think the 'what could I have done' question will haunt her to the end of her days and that's just awful, because she did it all.

Edited November 7, 2024 by Vee

[I Am A Swede]

Please register in order to view this content

 

[BetterForgotten]

Democrats should be starting now on what the strategy is for laying the groundwork for the 2026 midterms. They have to start with figuring out what went wrong with Gen Z, and working class Hispanic and African American males voters. In fact, the working class in general. Can they win them back or will their margins continue to recede? 
 

 

[Vee]

The answer is clear and it's nothing that any of us would like.

 

[Khan]

What IS the answer?  Because, at the moment, the answer eludes me.

I realize this will be a very unpopular opinion, but I think that if the Democrats have any hopes of moving forward, one thing they will have to do is to concede to the GOP and evangelical Christians on the issue of abortion. 

Forcing a woman to carry a baby to term regardless of circumstances is vile, but I think it's time we face facts.  Evangelicals have waited 50 years to see Roe undone.  Christian ideology is too ingrained in our culture.  We, as a country, will never reach a point where we can strike the right compromise between pro-choice and anti-.

At best, the Democrats can push for legislation that protects the mother in cases where carrying the child will pose a detriment to her health or the baby's; and yes, we MUST insist that the government does whatever it needs to do in order to ensure that both the mothers and their unwanted children have access to the best possible resources.  (You wanted these babies to be born, we could say, it's your responsibility now as Christians to see to it that they thrive).

But campaigning on a woman's right to choose...?  That, I'm sorry to say, is a war we just can't win.

Edited November 7, 2024 by Khan

[janea4old]

In Roman Catholic Ireland, abortion is legal.  Ireland recently had a gay leader.

The problem in the USA is the unChristian definition of Christianity.

[marceline]

People are giving their election downloads so here's mine.

First, people need to accept that this is who and what a lot of the country is. It's time to put away questions like "I don't know what people see in him!" "What will it take for people to stop supporting him?" They won't.

It's time to realize that half the country wants an authoritarian strongman. The reasons why will need some study but they do. We really are in the middle of a civil war and our side needs to adjust accordingly.

Next: I already see the "Dems are bad at messaging" talking point. I want someone to tell me the message Dems need to communicate to people who think Dems control the weather, women are getting post-birth abortions and Haitians are eating pets.Tell us how we're supposed to win votes of people in the throes of mass psychosis.

That said: here's where Dems really fucked up:

Pushing out Joe Biden was a fatal mistake pushing Biden out. Biden had one bad night and white Dems panicked and when people panic they make dangerous decisions. Think how a drowning person will drag down and kill the lifeguard trying to save them. Clooney opened the door and white Dems spent three weeks attacking a lifelong public servant who saved this country and rebuilt NATO.

With that betrayal Dems lost every argument they could run on. At a time they needed to convey sanity and strength, white Dems went all-in on cowardice and hysteria.

Democrats can't run on preserving democracy when they threw out the ballots of 15 million primary voters (including me) and they can't run on policy when they cruelly forced out the most effective policymaker we've seen in generations in a disgusting public pile on.

Another miscalculation white Dems made was thinking that the 15 million primary votes for Biden would immediately transfer to Harris. That wasn't going to happen. There were millions of people who were only voting for Democrats because Biden was our nominee.

(For the record, as I mention miscalculations I need to confess to my own. I thought white women would show up to save their own lives. I was wrong.Terribly horribly wrong.)

Edited November 7, 2024 by marceline

[Juliajms2]

Thank you for the perspective Carl. It really is worrying that the GOP has such appeal to young men. 

Personally, I think more people care about the trans sports issue than you might expect. I for one, do not like seeing women and girls lose opportunity to actual men or women who transitioned after going through make puberty. I think there are a lot of suburban girl parents who feel the same way. I don't even care about sports, but I don't want to see a woman decked by a biological male in the olympics (or anywhere). Also, I do believe in trans rights quite strongly.

Oh, don't worry about that. President Vance is on standby. 

[Khan]

That part. 

Please register in order to view this content

The fact is that there was only one person in this country who could have beaten Donald Trump.  He did it once, and I believe he could have done it again, internal polling be damned.  And until someone with real knowledge (and not just some dissatisfied social media user) presents me with undeniable, stone cold proof that says otherwise, I will never stop believing that Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer and other top Democrats are the reason why we are where we are now.

(Seriously, Hunter, I'm available anytime you decide to get even with those mofos!)

This is why I insist that Democrats back away from abortion and yield to the GOP on this issue.  I agree with @janea4old: people in this country have a very un-Christian definition of Christianity.  But the truth remains: even the majority of white women in this country believe in the so-called sanctity of human life above all else; and no argument that pro-choice advocates could make will penetrate that kind of thinking, ever.

Edited November 7, 2024 by Khan

[lilyredd]

It is false to claim abortion rights is a losing issue- in states like Ohio and Missouri, abortion rights have been enshrined in their constitution. As one who has supported Democrats since I turned 18 with my labor and money, I would not support any concessions on abortion. Abortion is not why Dems lost and to say otherwise is ignoring how popular the issue is with all people. To hell with evangelicals and their ilk.  

[BetterForgotten]

Interesting local NY News reporting:

Please register in order to view this content

 

 

Edited November 7, 2024 by BetterForgotten

[DRW50]

Seems to be gone. What did it say?

[janea4old]

I watched that youtube before it was deleted. Some of the Bronx voters  had changed from voting for Biden in 2020 to voting for tr*mp in 2024.  The video showed citizens of one Bronx district/neighborhood discussing their reasoning.

Edited November 8, 2024 by janea4old