The Politics Thread

[JaneAusten]

Thanks Brian and to be honest I couldn't say yeah or nah before in terms of respect because I really never quite understood why you supported the republican leadership, but I appreciate your taking the time.

In all honesty, I don't think you and moderate left are that far apart, which I consider myself. I'm not an Obama fan , he's been a disappointment, but I think it's more a matter of the positions and vitriol I see on the right. I'm not a Harry Reid or Pelosi fan by the way either but I'm also not nor ever have been a fan of John McCains. And I am certainly a social liberal. But I've always been against Roe vs Wade for example, on the principle that it's not the governments business to decide what I can and can't do with my body, but sadly the social conservatives want to push their ideals, so the amendment was needed and still is to protect women's reproductive rights.

Foreign Policy is a mess and has been for many years now but I do agree with Ron Paul is its time to quick sticking our noses and giving money to every country out there and take care of our own. We could fund 10 times over a REAL national health care program with all the money we give to everyone else and the money we spend defending other countries.

In terms of deficits I agree, but I wish republicans who keep harping on the president about this yet go on to crow about Reagen would remember we reached record high deficits under him, yet he was allegedly one of the greatest presidents of the 20th century I'm told.

I often wonder how a man like Franklin Roosevelt, who pushed programs like the WPA(which did have value in the longrun) but was attacked for much of the same in terms of domestic policies would fare in today's political climate of instant gratification. He was by the way, known as being more of a fiscal conservative.

I do ask because you still didn't clarify why the republicans? What do you feel the republican leadership could offer that the democrats can't?

Edited November 20, 2012 by JaneAusten

[GoldenDogs]

Hi Jane,

The reason I more closely identify with Republicans is because many of the beliefs held by the left offend me, or I find unfortunate. I view Democrats as holding the banner for restricting the freedoms of others... ie: government intervention with everything. Obamacare is the antithesis of this. I strongly disagree with that.

I believe in personal responsibility. I don't think the government should be telling women what to do with their bodies, either. I'm not for mass abortions upon demand, however, particularly used as a form of birth control - but the government has no business telling women they can't do it. BUT the government also has no business FUNDING IT upon request. If people make a personal choice to engage in a certain behavior, then I believe they should make a personal choice to cope with the results of that behavior and not expect someone else to take care of it for them. And I'm not limiting that to just the abortion issue... it's with everything in life.

For example, a person brings in $20,000 to $30,000 a year and lives way beyond their means... buys a house with payments of, say, $3,000 a month and can't swing it... then they should LOSE the house, not qualify for some special consideration, discount, or forgiveness of the debt on your back, Jane, or mine. Sure, realtors and banks are greedy bastards and bear some responsibility - but people should be in control of their own finances and make sound decisions or face consequences. Do you get pissed at Target when they offer goods that you want but can't afford because your credit card is declined? Should they give you the products anyway and charge the next guy in line for your stuff? Of course not.

If you wish to IM me, we can talk more in depth about my beliefs. But fiscally, I'm very conservative and I strongly believe that none of the other things we all debate about in here matter much if the country financially collapses. When gas is $7.00 a gallon and it stretches your budget to feed your family, things like gay marriage, abortion, or racist "code words" really don't matter much. Likewise when a middle eastern conflict could drag us into another rotten war... I strongly believe the election was about something other than the big, important issues. THAT concerns me. The stability of our country... our safety and security (yes, even Ann and Carl's! LOL!) is something I'm concerned about.

Democrats, I fear, are not focused on the bigger picture. I worry that many Democratic voters are one-issue voters, ie: gay marriage, abortion, gun control, entitlements, etc. The behavior of the press (sorry, Carl, the media does NOT like Republicans) and the failure of journalistic integrity should concern ALL OF US. I studied journalism in school and the conduct I'm witnesses across the board is NOT how media should report. Scary. Some in the media were obviously in the tank for Obama and that is SCARY. If the mass media were in the tank for Romney, I would not have liked that, either.

So, when it comes to the big picture, I believe the Republicans see more of it. They're not perfect... I've been plenty pissed over the years at the Republicans and, for a time, considered registering as an independent. The last four years of Obama are a disappointment and his policies have NOT worked. I wonder if, four years from now, if Democrats will still blame Bush? Obama had two years of full control... he rammed Obamacare through. He could have accomplished ANYTHING he wanted during that frame of time. He chose to focus on healthcare. With all the issues of the day... the man focused on HEALTHCARE. High employment... Bush's rotten economy sinking us all... and he passes HEALTHCARE? The stimulus was a joke and only added to the debt.

I don't want to go on... you get the idea. But if there is more you wish to know, just ask. If you wish to talk privately, I'm game for that, too. :-)

[quartermainefan]

They aren't even able to see that Abraham did not literally live for 900 years. The only picture they seem able to see is "The Ten Commandments" on ABC every easter.

[Ann_SS]

I still cannot get over that the Republicans' leading presidential candidates for 2016 all believe in creationism. Unbelievable.

Edited November 21, 2012 by Ann_SS

[juppiter]

lol @ making an issue of Obama referring to Burma as "Myanmar." There are actually two ways to call Burma in the Burmese language -- one is Burma the other is Myanmar. So the country renamed itself... big deal. This is not the "Polish Death Camps" issue that WAS a gaffe that I backed you up on earlier in this thread, Brian. It's a non-issue.

Nobody is saying Burma/Myanmar -- not offensive to call it either -- should be treated as a Jeffersonian democracy. BUT should we start lifting sanctions, and continue lifting them as it improves? I say yes. That shows other countries like North Korea that if you improve your human rights situation the same will be done with you.

It's a way to effect change without invading a country and having a costly decade long war, not "amateurish."

[Ann_SS]

Nah, Republicans rather spill our blood and treasure over every international confrontation then turn around like Romney and refer to our physically and emotionally injured veterans as those "who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name it."

Edited November 21, 2012 by Ann_SS

[JaneAusten]

They should reinstitute the draft and you'd see how willing Americans would be to support our involvement in foreign conflicts. One of the reasons the average American doesn't give a damn about foreign affairs and policy is that they don't see it impacting their everyday lives. A draft would change that.

My dad fought in WW2, went to college and only went because the GI Bill gave him that opportunity but I guess in today's environment, he would be considered a taker and victim.

[quartermainefan]

The simpleton has an IQ of 156. Einstein's was 160 as a frame of reference. I would be curious to see Sarah Palin's.

Edited November 21, 2012 by quartermainefan

[GoldenDogs]

Romney never said that about veterans, Ann. You are the most vile person in this forum.

[Wales2004]

She's certainly more than capable of fighting her own battles so that's not what I'm doing....but I do find what you said offensive and extremely ill mannered and I don't care if you wish to criticize me for saying so. It's childish to call a person vile because you don't agree with that person and there really is no need to even get that personal.

Mitt Romney never said a lot of things directly but he implied certain things and while he may not have meant seniors or veterans or certain others, the percentage he named includes seniors and veterans because he made a specific tax reference if I recall correctly, that encompasses a lot of people he might not have wanted to include. That's the whole reason it pays to carefully consider what you say before you say it. Doing so minimizes the need to backtrack or apologize often.

And I don't see how what's referred to as the Republican base has any more of a world view than the "one issue" Democrats. It's not as if some of them don't have their single issues as well, which in some cases seems to be avoiding gun control laws. Or xenophobia since their fearless leaders love to code language that gets their attention. While you may see a bigger picture, I doubt that the base to which coded language is meant to appeal, is interested in much more than protecting their space from foreigners which basically means anyone who does not look and speak like them. Some of those proud Republicans are probably sucking up "entitlements" themselves but the difference between their getting it and others getting it, is they somehow believe they earned it more than some minority who worked hard and fell on the same bad luck they did.

Oh and I happen to be one of those backwards people that believe in creationism....God bless me!! And I'm perfectly content to be that backwards about it. I don't find it mutually exclusive of scientific principles either nor do I care if anyone thinks I'm a loon. I guess I can be right up there with the Republican candidates now.

[marceline]

Yes he did. When he made his infamous "47 percent" comments. U.S. military personnel deployed to war zones are exempt from paying federal taxes on their combat pay so when Romney attacked people who don't pay Federal income taxes, he was attacking members of the military.

Of course, I can help but notice again that your response to Ann includes a personal attack and a stunning amount of hyperbole. "...the most vile person in this forum?" At least her comments have a factual basis. Perhaps you should try including that in some of yours.

[alphanguy74]

And that's the reason he wasn't a successful president. He was too smart for the room. And too nice of a man to play the dirty games.

[DRW50]

RIP Warren Rudman.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-11-20/warren-rudman-senator-who-fought-budget-deficits-dies-at-82.html

Why everyone's favorite Tea Party hero lost (kind of ironic that for all his far right hates, he went to Mark Foley for advice).

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/84108.html?hp=f2

[DRW50]

This is low class, no class [!@#$%^&*]. I hope McMahon is finally all washed up.

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/politics/campaign-worker-receives-check-and-condom-check-bounces#.UKyt1Ya8BSg

[Ann_SS]

I am not a fan of the draft. I think that usually the children of the wealthy and socially connected are able to avoid the draft which leaves the children of the working class who tend to have less political influence going off to fight the wars.