The Politics Thread

[I Am A Swede]

^^

That's true!  

[DramatistDreamer]

This is moving at lightning speed.

 

[DramatistDreamer]

Afghanistan has had disputed elections where nobody wanted to leave, even when voted out.

In this case though, the leader can't leave fast enough, I guess. Given the propensity of some of the leaders of Afghanistan's government toward cowardice I can't say I'm surprised.  

 

Flight or fight and most of us would take flight, but when you're the leader, isn't more usually required?

 

[Wendy]

This sounds cold, and I don't mean it to be, but sometimes, reality is cold. Afghanistan's current plight was going to be its fate regardless of how long the US has been there.

But in TWENTY YEARS of training forces, the fact that these same people just cut and run - leaving the weapons given by the US! - rather than attempt to defend their nation tells me that our training was in vain, as were all the deaths of US troops in the last two decades.

It is the new Vietnam. As such, the American people there and allies need to leave and let what happens, happen. Because it's increasingly clear this was unavoidable.

And this will always be Dubya's legacy.

[Vee]

The media desperately wants Afghanistan to be the issue, but it won't be. The public doesn't care. It has wanted us out for over a decade. The Beltway media, which have endless contacts inside DOD and the military and are hugely sympathetic to their sources, will be outraged for them. That's why you'll never, ever hear a network or NYT/Post journalist question the wisdom of the endless military strategy of 'six more months.'

They'll stay mad, but it's not going to have any impact on the public or polling. Because the majority of the people have known Afghanistan is unwinnable for years. The only people it matters to now is the brass and the DC journalists who adore them.

[JaneAusten]

I agree with all of that.  I honestly am flabbergasted at the hyperventilating.  First it was about getting people out who helped Americans. Legit concern. When people didn't care about that (not enough) the narrative shifted.  

I think it's awful what's going to happen to a lot of innocents in that country but this just indicates there was no formal government there. And I blame the media and press just like I did for the WMD fiasco. They never fact check they just parrot what they are told.

I think there should be a lot of people at the Pentagon and in intelligence that should have to answer for Afghanistan. But like with Iraq and the fake WMD's nothing will happen.

[Vee]

The media is going to be talking about it for days, or weeks. But it's not going to matter to the public or the polls, because only the Beltway has these symbiotic relationships with the Pentagon brass where they can never be questioned or challenged on forever needing 'six more months.'

It's tragic what's happening in Afghanistan, but to most of the country this episode is simply the sad end to an ugly pursuit we should never have entered into.

[wingwalker]

I am saddened, especially for the women who did get to live better lives for 20 years, that'll now likely come to an end, but this was inevitable. It didn't matter how much longer we were going to stay there. Afghanistan isn't a real country and you can't forcibly turn it into one.  It was originally created as a buffer zone between British Raj (India and Pakistan) and Russian Empire. Since then, it was invaded twice by British, the Russians and us. There is no national identity or patriotism and we did almost nothing in the 20 years we were there to create one. People think of themselves citizens of the tribes or region they live in first. 

Is this exit messy? Yes, but I'm not sure exactly what people expected. I'm not sure how much damage it'll do politically in the long term either. Sadly most Americans stop caring long ago and have wanted us out for a while.  Multiple Presidents deserve blame. Bush for taking his eye off the ball and getting us into Iraq, Obama for doubling down on Afghanistan instead of withdrawing, Trump for making a terrible peace deal with the Taliban. 

 

 

 

[DramatistDreamer]

The calls for Biden to be impeached are from a sketchy small group of likely mostly bots and some trolls trying to start something. There are other concerns, like the pandemic and how many kids will actually be showing up for school. I am interested in Afghanistan, as I am in what goes on globally, but beyond that? The biggest mistake was getting in Iraq and Afghanistan in the first place and having the hubris to believe the U.S. could nation-build, but what's done is done, staying wouldn't make anything better.

Also, the people who use words like vindication are not being helpful. Many of us protested the wars and occupation. Congress authorized it anyway.  And?

[DRW50]

I think the public who are sucked in by the media and GOP talking points will fall in line against Biden (that and the dead end leftists who are eating up all the giddy propaganda from loathsome Snowden and Greenwald today), so it will likely be 50/50, like everything else these days. I do find the hypocrisy of Republicans suddenly pretending to care about "women and girls" enough to make me want to retch, but this type of phoniness is appealing to much of the country, along with shameless Andrea Mitchell forcing out tears oncamera. 

The people who have been desperate to find "proof" of Biden's failure will never let this go. The only thing to hope for is that in spite of not having money, media control, and control of a majority of state and federal courts and legislate maps, Democrats can manage to hold on for a narrow majority in 2022. Biden seems to be willing to play the long game and not care about what people say - he's lost too much in his life to stop and listen to the chattering classes. So I am going to just try to go by his example and ignore a lot of stuff and cut my Twitter intake even further down, alongside my just about nonexistent news viewing. The news industry in this country at this point can just go to hell as far as I'm concerned. It's done. 

[marceline]

I give it days. The press thinks this is going to move the needle on Biden but I think the polling will show that most Americans support leaving. I've been looking at Facebook pages for my local media. That's where you can find the thoughts of every yokel in town. Left leaners think we have our own Taliban to deal with and right leaners just don't give a damn about anyone else. There's a lot of hot takes about Afghanistan: What Was it All For? but the only real Biden hate is coming from MAGA trolls. I think he's going to weather this okay.

[DramatistDreamer]

We who reside here in the U.S. and other Western countries don't usually get news of elections in African countries unless there is violence but this is a noteworthy development, even if it is not getting much notice at the moment.

 

 

[Juliajms]

That's exactly how I see it. It is terrible for the people of Afghanistan, but it was arrogant of our government to think we could fix it.

[Vee]

 

[JaneAusten]

That's exactly how it's playing out. Other than the Beltway hyperventilating who else is over covering this.  I don't know that it's that people don't care but about foreign wars nah they don't. Johnson got hit on Vietnam a good amount because of the TV coverage - Dan Rather made his name reporting from there.  Today's reporters are too busy being spoon fed propaganda from the Defense and State departments to ever ask a legit reason why.  Someone needs to explain to me how the Beltway press got it so wrong. but then they were wrong about Iraq too and I think there is a come to Jesus that is going to happen with Iraq at some point and our presence there still.  

The only one I heard remotely telling the truth was the BBC coverage, Al Jazeera, and Fareed Zakaria oddly enough.  Most people have no clue what's been happening in Afghanistan for the last 20 years. Anyone following it knew we gave up there when the new shiny object Iraq came into play. There were thousands of troops redeployed from Afghanistan for yet another phony war in Iraq. At that point our presence there was pointless.

Edited August 16, 2021 by JaneAusten