The Politics Thread

[Vee]

 

[DramatistDreamer]

This morning, I saw a headline that said that former president Bill Clinton called for the suspension of the filibuster. I'll have to watch the rest to see the specifics if what he's saying, but more people are beginning to see the filibuster as a definite obstacle to the Biden agenda.

 

In other election news, I don't know why people are so shocked by India Walton's win in Buffalo. It's similar to AOC's victory over a multiple times incumbent. Buffalo is even worse in how economic progress for people has stalled for many years. It's not inconceivable that people would actually want a change when they have been languishing for decades.

 

It looks as if the losing incumbent might try to pull a Joe Lieberman-type maneuver in the general election.

Edited June 24, 2021 by DramatistDreamer

[DramatistDreamer]

It's about time.

 

[Vee]

Thread and other stuff:

 

 

So long as this is true (for once) I am not super pressed about the latest developments in Infrastructure Year on the bipartisan bill which is sure to disappoint everyone but CNN talking heads. Manchin will squawk about changing the package just like he tried to do but ultimately didn't do much on the Rescue bill, but he can't outfight Pelosi.

[Vee]

 

 

 

I will add that the visceral disdain the Capitol Hill reporter crowd (virtually all of them reared by GOP-worshipping Politico, Jake Sherman in particular) has for this approach makes my heart sing. They always get pissy when Democrats push on something.

[Vee]

 

 

[Vee]

 

[DRW50]

I don't blame Schumer because I don't really think anyone would be able to do much better with Sinema or Manchin, and I hope that the plan Pelosi has worked out will happen, but this type of pretzel-twisting is one of the reasons why even if this thing, or some form of it, ever does pass, I'm not sure how many voters are going to understand or care.

 

 

Meanwhile, images like all the hysteria at that school board meeting in Loudon are all over the place and being used by the media and right wing astrofurfing groups to dominate the narrative.

[Vee]

Can you give it five minutes before declaring months in advance that even if it works it won't matter and no one will care?

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You said that about the American Rescue Plan too and it wasn't true. I don't take the word of Brian Beutler (who hates all Dems in power) as gospel.

 

 

 

[JaneAusten]

In all fairness I saw many predicting this was dead weeks ago.  I have no doubt the GOP would squash it but then everything goes in reconciliation. For all the bloviating Manchin did, he did as many predicted.  You really need to stop listening to the doomsday machine. The news media gets paid to generate outrage and particularly to cause a frenzy with democrats.

 

And you can thank the grassroots groups for the voting rights bill getting a vote and for Manchin finally indicating he's open to reform so we''ll see. I hope you have called your senators everyday. I have. Yeah it's repetitive but it's good for solid democratic senators to hear also. And there are going to be rally's in DC and across the country all summer ending with a huge rally in DC in August on voting rights. 

 

I have heard endlessly how Trump was going to win in 2020, how the senate was lost, how terrible it was the house lost so many seats and I also remember 2018 when it's funny how the media never focused on how midterms are basically always a loss for a sitting presidents party when the democrats picked up a record number of seats and Governorships. 

 

Frankly I am hoping Trump comes back out in public and starts having rally's. Nothing gets the democrats fired up than being against that guy.

[marceline]

 

I'm seeing this all over the web. Every Biden success, makes the Beltway press crazy. There are too many people out here who still can't bring themselves to admit that Joe Biden might actually know what he's doing. They investment in the "Dems=weak/McConnell=master of the universe" narrative has completely become gospel among a segment of the left. It's basically Stockholm Syndrome.

 

 

Your hope will be rewarded. Donald is doing a rally in Ohio this weekend.

[DRW50]

 

You pretty much get what you expect with the doomsday machine and the media - for instance, the media has helped brainwash so many people into thinking extended unemployment benefits were bad and that people on unemployment are lazy (even though many I know haven't even received ANY unemployment benefits). I am not blaming Manchin or Schumer or other Democrats for that because I know it's not their fault. 

 

I do put a lot of the blame for the current messaging and polling problems on Manchin, and Sinema, and those in the Senate hiding behind them, because they have squandered the momentum which was gained with the brisk passage of the stimulus plan. We've since had months of these two doing nothing but stalling, running to cameras to show us how important they are, and setting out traps for Biden over not being "bipartisan" enough. Now we have a bill that is very watered down and will either be defeated, after months more haggling, by lack of 60 votes (followed by even more haggling in a reconciliation, with  Sinema and Manchin hemming and hawing for cameras over whether they will support it and reminding us how bad both sides are), or because Manchin and Sinema won't keep their word. That's not even getting into the months of time that will need to be spent on voting rights, something else where it's impossible to guess if Sinema or Manchin or those hiding behind them will allow anything to actually happen. 

 

Democrats have a 5-seat House majority, a tie in the Senate, and a White House where, thanks to the GOP and the media, a huge amount of the public believes Biden was illegitimately elected. You have an influential cable news show calling for the execution of up to "tens of thousands" they blame for Trump not being in the White House. You have a sea of states that have passed and are passing legislation to not just oppress voters, but overturn elections. Trump is now demanding his lunatic, murderous followers to "Take Back America." 

 

I believe that Biden sees the urgency of this reality. I believe that it had been up to him, these issues would have been addressed sooner. That didn't happen, and instead we have lost so much time we aren't going to get back (as well as a clear message the public could have latched onto to prevent voter apathy or falling for right wing framing), thanks to the showboating of very rich, very out of touch people who are going to be more than fine no matter what happens to us. Even if everything snaps into place now, we should have never been here. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by DRW50

[Vee]

 

[Vee]

 

 

All good news. Restoring pre-clearance would be a huge deal.

 

As for the above discussion, I'll just say I see no evidence the reconciliation package on infrastructure will surely be 'watered down to nothing' and leave it at that. (It will come down from Bernie Sanders' price tag, but that's not the same thing).  If this joint action causes McConnell, whose only goal is to ensure the Dems pass nothing substantive, to dig in and refuse to let any Republicans cross the line and vote for the bipartisan bill (assuming not enough defect to pass the worst possible bill), then this allows Biden and co. to simply throw up their hands, tell the Beltway 'we tried!' and With a Heavy Heart pass a big reconciliation package anyway. All he needs to do for Manchin, based on Manchin's past history, is show a good faith effort. When that fails, nine times out of ten Manchin votes for the reconciliation. And Sinema has already forsworn the same.

 

Meanwhile:

 

 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Vee

[DRW50]

I was talking about the bipartisan bill, which got about a day of praise from those who live for bipartisan bills until Lindsey Graham panned it. So now the focus will be back to "This is not truly bipartisan," with more tut-tutting from Manchin and the media, until weeks or months from now when the inevitable happens and they finally start work on reconciliation, which will also get a great deal of criticism from Manchin, Sinema, the GOP, and the press before final passage, if there is a final passage. I'm not even going to try to guess what would be in reconciliation, if that ever happens.

 

I know they have no real choice in this, I know that if Biden had had his way they would not have done all this song and dance, but, to go with my original point, I just don't know how much public support the bill is going to have after not only being put through such a grinder which dragged out for many months, but also repeatedly being told by three different corners (the media, the GOP, Manchin/Sinema and those who hide behind them like Chris Coons) that such a bill is inferior and unworthy because our system is broken and we should all be friends and on and on and on.

 

I wish that Biden had just not even focused on infrastructure if this is where we were going to end up. I don't know if he thought Manchin was going to be less delusional or if things are just so bad that even this is the best we were going to get, but in the end I just don't know if this is going to be worth it.

 

If you or others want to see that as negative, then you can. That's your choice.

Edited June 25, 2021 by DRW50