The Politics Thread

[Chris B]

 

If she doesn't get the nomination I hope she stays in the Senate. No VP or cabinet position. I feel the press has kept trying to minimize her and act like she's only running for VP which makes me not want her to do that. She's too talented for a figurehead position.

[Vee]

That WaPo piece is another smoking gun. And impeachment approval is rising by the hour. This is moving very, very fast.

I love Kamala and would generally agree with the above, but if we get Biden as the nom (please no, I want Warren) he will likely need Harris or Warren as a running mate.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Vee

[Chris B]

The Washington Post story was shocking, as was Guliani falling for the bait and showing screenshots of his texts with that State Department official who quickly resigned. This is moving faster than I anticipated and if the Post story is any indication, the people at the white house see the writing on the wall and are trying to save their asses. Now that it's truly at Watergate levels, I feel they're more worried about potential jail sentences. Imagine what next week is gonna be like if this is just day three.

 

 

It's difficult to think of a suitable running mate for Biden, but he will need someone strong as VP to motivate people. It's just a matter of who would agree to it. His age might make people put aside their feelings and join him though.

[Vee]

 

If Joe pledged to serve one term and endorse the veep? It's doable. But I really don't want him as the nominee. Not because I think he can't win but because it will leave us in even more pain and strife come Inauguration Day as a big tent than we will need after Trump. It'll make the petulant left revolutions once Obama won and they couldn't complain about Bush anymore - and had to make a new Democratic president the enemy - look sedate. We simply do not have time for that shít going forward, not nationally, not globally. Also, as has been noted, Joe is a deeply flawed (if good) man who often digs himself deeper. His solutions will often be to shrug it off and try to get back to working with a GOP-choked Congress like it's 1991.

FWIW: My ideal ticket is probably Warren/Castro. IMO Castro is going to be POTUS someday - I've been saying that since 2012.

[DRW50]

 

Castro seems a bit like Cory Booker to me in that I feel like they let hype hollow them both out too early and make them seem inauthentic. 

 

Biden's frailty and his family problems (I do think his son is a real problem) worry me more than his centrism at this point, but I agree that is going to just make the left even more angry. I know they will hate anyone, aside from St. Bernie, but Biden isn't doing himself any favors. 

[Vee]

A lot of the left love Warren - I count myself among the left. There's the left, which is a very big tent, and then there's the dead end, Bernie or bust, Splinter/Intercept faction. They're two different things to me. But as for the latter, they're not enough if the candidate isn't Hillary IMO.

 

I heard a very convincing argument today that it's Warren period now, because the impeachment mess is going to drag Joe down with Trump in terms of association, which I didn't believe before. I think Joe will always be loved by a segment of the base and should be despite his flaws, but I do think all Warren has to do is sit back and let this taint Joe. Bernie is behind both of them.

 

[Wendy]

As a woman myself, I hate saying this. But...if Elizabeth Warren is the nominee, I do fear we get 4 more years of Republican rule, either via Traitor Tot or someone else. Because at heart, this country is not just racist, but sexist.

 

Other countries with female leaders seem more evolved. But I sadly think the sexist POV still exists here. And it's why I remain hesitant about Warren's overall chances, polls be damned.

[DRW50]

 

I think it's easier in other countries partly because many of them don't elect a President directly. They vote in a party and the politicians of that party ultimately choose the prime minister or chancellor or what have you.

 

I have the same fears you do, but I'm at the point where I don't know how many options we have. I don't like Bernie and I despise many of his supporters, and I will not support him unless there is no other option. All the other nominees bar Biden and Warren seem to be out of it, barring some last minute jolts. Between Biden and Warren, right now I would vote for Warren, but I know that the media and the GOP will tear her to pieces, along with many Democrats on the left and the right. It will be a very close race at best. If I had more trust in the people around Biden and in Biden's ability, I would probably vote for him as he's the safest choice, but right now that's really hard for me to do.

[Vee]

I think Warren's come back much, much stronger than I thought she would six to nine months ago. She's really impressed me with how well she can connect to people in a plainspun, straight talk way that Hillary was always too guarded to be able to do three years ago, at least not when in public view. She has a similar appeal to Joe in that way, with how blunt but also light she can be, and she's already proved skillful at taking apart right-wing-framed media questions. (Her dismantling of, I think it was, the same old 'how are you gonna pay for it?' framing at a debate from a CNN or MSNBC moderator a few weeks or months ago was a thing of beauty.) So we'll see what happens. I think she's tough as nails, and unlike Hillary she has not been built up as the Antichrist for over twenty years.

Edited September 28, 2019 by Vee

[Chris B]

A problem I worry for Warren is that she hasn't been vetted enough and that, among other things, might come back to bite her when she gets the nomination. When she was on Colbert and The Breakfast Show, they both tripped her up with tough questions that went beyond her talking point. She still keeps dodging the middle class tax question. I think she would still possibly win, but it'll be a lot tougher for her once she actually gets the nomination.

[DramatistDreamer]

 

The press STAYS minimizing Black women.  Period.

Apparently, we are good enough to be relied upon for our votes and the toothless #ListenToBlackwomen and #VoteLikeBlackwomen hastags abound, but apparently we are not good enough to be in charge of anything.  Only function as de-facto "Hidden Figures" while cleaning up/organizing the mess that other folks left behind.  Had anyone (other than a Black publication) bothered to see/poll Black women (you know, the so-called "base"  of the Democratic Party), they'd see that Harris actually polls quite high, in the #2 slot.

 

 

Au contraire.  Great Britain had Thatcher and they are not evolved at all. I won't even get into Pakistan and Israel and India, if you look at these countries, their politics are a total mess.  You don't need to be especially evolved to have a female head of state. You can be a mess, the same way as with any male head of state.  It's in the mentality of the U.S. voter that makes the difference.  The same mentality that didn't believe that a Black man could ever be POTUS.  Some things really are that simple.

 

This has thankfully happened, even though it's going mostly unnoticed.  

 

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by DramatistDreamer

[DRW50]

Two good articles (although the second goes off track into melodrama).

 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/27/impeachment-trump-congress-house-228346

 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/27/trump-impeachment-national-security-house-democrats-moderate-mikie-sherrill-228430

[Khan]

 

Elizabeth Warren is a born-and-bred Okie; and one trait that most Okies share, regardless of political affiliations, is our ability to shove aside rhetoric and niceties and just TALK to people -- directly, with no muss or fuss -- about what we think, feel and believe.  Live in Oklahoma long enough -- as I have, my entire life -- and you learn that the more five dollar words you use, the less chance you have of getting others to see your point of view.

 

Now, if we could just get our heads out of our asses about gun control, reproductive rights and climate change....

Edited September 28, 2019 by Khan

[Vee]

 

Trump is handling the morning well:

 

 

[Khan]

"PRESIDENTIAL HARASSMENT" is precisely how I intend to "KEEP AMERICA GREAT."  The Senate is likely to kill any chances of his being removed from office, but if the House does its' job properly and votes to impeach him, then I hope Trump is reminded of their decision Every. Single. Day. for as long as he remains in office.