The Politics Thread

[Max]

Even though we disagreed politically, Geraldine Ferraro was always a class act. She will be sorely missed.

I remember back in 2008 how viciously (and unfairly) the left attacked her as a racist simply because she brought up the fact that Obama was grossly underqualified/inexperienced to be president. Yet, based on his mediocre performance as commander in chief (especially when it comes to job creation, which is the number one issue for most Americans), it turns out that Ferraro's objections were right all along.

[alphanguy74]

Well.. if we want to point the finger about lack of job creation, let's point that witchiepoo finger right square in the face of the private sector who betray their own country by hiring illegal aliens, and the lazy ass amercian public who has lost it's work ethic.

[MichaelGL]

R.I.P. Geraldine Ferraro.

Hmmm Max, that hasn't stopped the economy from growing, and from looks of it, at a reasonable rate considering the economic downturn that happened when Obama took office. All charts and graphs alike say pretty much the same thing, there is job growth, and amongst the private sector as well.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/25/news/economy/gdp_revision/index.htm

[Max]

Michael, I never said that the economy has not grown during Obama's presidency; what I said that meaningful job growth has failed to happen. Of course, overall economic growth is a positive thing, but what good is that to the oridinary person who remains unemployed (since the unemployement rate is still over 9%, as it was a few years ago before the overall economy grew)? And, the graph that's found at the link you provided just shows GDP growth, not growth in the employment rate. (Although the graph's companion article mentions that GDP growth should be a good sign for future job growth, such statements have been made throughout this economic rebound and yet the job market continues to remain stagnant.)

Alphanguy has a vaild point that corportions deserve some of the blame for failing to hire new workers as the economy rebounds (when they instead choose to hire temporary workers or illegal immigrants). However, he is way off base when he states that "the lazy ass American public has lost its work ethic." While he's entitled to his own opinion, I'd really like to know why he feels such a statement is true.

And even though (1) this recession began under Bush and (2) corporations still are not in any mood to hire permanent employees as the economy rebounds, there comes a time when being a leader means being willing to take blame for things that have not improved under your watch. Unfortunately, Obama fails to acknowledge any wrongdoing on his part, and his supporters continue to make excuses for him. At the very least, there should be some sort of admission that job growth has not always been the #1 focus of his efforts: witness the fact that after passing the stimulus package very early in his presidency, Obama then made health care reform his administration's top priority; virtually all of his political capital went into this battle, which lasted over twelve months. By the time Obama won the health care battle, his popularity was far lower than it was at the beginning of his term, which made passing any more legislation designed to increase job growth so much more difficult. (The main point here is not to re-argue the health care debate. Instead, it is to say that even if you supported health care reform 100%, a massive failure in leadership on the president's part occurred because he should have made sure the economy and the job market first recovered before pursuing over initiatives. After all, it was the job market/economy--and not health care--that was the most important concern on voter's minds in 2008.)

Edited March 27, 2011 by Max

[alphanguy74]

I feel that the amercian public has lost it's work ethic because of my own personal experience. When I built my house, I advertized for a worker to dig a trench for 25$ an hour (this was 15 years ago) I couldn't get anyone to do it... so me, my best friend, and my 60 year old mother did it. A 60 year old woman and two queens is what it took to do a job that these tough straight men wouldn't do. And just in everyday life.... I see people not willing to "lower themselves" and get their hands dirty, too lazy to do something by hand, if they can't use machinery to accomplish a task, they don't want to do it. Besides the cheaper wages... that's why Mexicans get hired for alot of stuff, THEIR work ethic is still intact. I come from farmers.... so I come from a long line of people with a work ethic. But there are so many nowadays who don't want to get off their butts. And as far as job growth, when an economy recovers... all past indicators show that job growth is the LAST to respond. Just give it time. I heard talk radio pundits wondering where the recovery was just 3 MONTHS after he took office. Alot of it IS thinly vieled racism, and you won't convince me otherwise. The fact reamins that all of the blame for the illegal immigration problem does NOT lie with the government, after all... the government is not the one hiring these people. Instead, we have conservatives across the country posturing and puffing up their chest, wanting to spend BILLIONS of taxpayer dollars to build a wall, that would be completely uneccesary. If when people came over the border.... they would find NO WORK, and not even be able to get their foot in the door, then your problem would be SOLVED. These same conservatives and right wing talk radio hosts need to channel their energy into INVESTIGATING and EXPOSING companies who do this illegal hiring, and publicize, shame, and organize boycotts against them. But as usual, they sit behind their microphones and bump their gums instad of actually doing anything about it.

Edited March 27, 2011 by alphanguy74

[Cheap21]

So what do people think about Donald Trump wanting to run for president?

[GoldenDogs]

Alphaguy... I agree with your comments on illegal alien workers, the responsibility the private sector should take for the problem, and the ethics of workers in America today.

I had a place in the mountains some years ago and I needed some work done - lots of big trees and sloping land that was just two much for me and my family to tackle. The trees needed a proper trimming very badly. I called ads in both the phone book and newspaper, left messages... nobody called back. Those that did call back didn't show up to give an estimate for the work. These were independent folks with licenses, by the way. One guy gave me an estimate (was a bit high, I thought, but what do you do when nobody else will do the work!) - and HE never showed up on the scheduled work date! Finally found a guy to come out... licensed, good references (though I didn't call them). He did the work... half-assed. Butchered the tops of the trees (they eye level from the deck of the house), then left broken branches, etc. on the ground below them. I was PISSED. Told him I wouldn't pay him in full until the mess was cleaned up. Then HE got pissed but agreed to clean up. Again, a half-assed job. I finally gave him his balance to get rid of him... then promptly spread word to anyone and everyone I could talk to in and around the town (was a small town).

LESSON: Hire two queens and an old woman. JUST KIDDING! LOL... The lesson I learned is that sometimes you just CAN'T get good help.

I can't tell you how many gardeners we've been through here at home. The current one is the best... though he best communicates through his daughter. Now, I purposely sought to hire a gardener who was NOT undocumented and I'm positive the one I'm using now is legal because he is licensed and his daughter speaks perfect English and, in conversation, has told me how long her father and his crew have been working here. I admit that I'm puzzled as to why his English is so poor... but whatever. His price for the job wasn't the cheapest... But he actually shows up and leaves notes letting me know what's going on, his schedules, etc. AND, unlike some I have dealt with in the past two years here, he SHOWED UP.

Anyways... sorry for being long-winded with these stories. Just wanted to add that, as a resident of California, I see this problem every day... every time I leave the house. No joke. It's BAD here. And you see it in stores, on the roads, and affecting daily life here. I truly believe any business hiring undocumented workers should be heavily fined or shut down. Workers found to be here illegally should be deported, no exceptions.

Now, I see the other side... many of these people may be fleeing corruption in their home countries. I get that and feel badly for them... perhaps the money and resources we are pissing off in Libya, Afghanistan, and Iraq would be better spent shaping up OUR hemisphere. I say bring all troops home and protect the homeland. Leverage for regime change of corrupt governments in OUR hemisphere. Make things better for OUR neighbors and their people. I truly believe that the ineffective way the illegal immigration problem is being handled is resulting in more of these people being abused here... more laws broken, no accountability, etc.

Thanks...

[quartermainefan]

I don't think he'll ever run. He is an egomaniac who likes attention, but he is not going to put up with scrutiny into his private life. Also, his positions are all pretty much fake. Wasn't he pro choice just a few years ago?

Plus, he has no experience in anything except building bankrupt casinos, so who needs that?

Most importantly, his hair.

[GoldenDogs]

HYPOCRISY...

U.S. says Libyan rebels may sell oil

A U.S. Treasury Department official said Libyan rebels would not be subject to U.S. sanctions if they avoid entities linked to Gaddafi's regime, which would allow them to sell oil under their control.

"The rebels are not part of the government of Libya. They are not subject to the sanctions," the official said.

A war all about oil... under OBAMA? Nahhhh... say it ain't so, Liberals! Say it ain't so!!

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/28/us-libya-oil-rebels-idUSTRE72R6X620110328

Edited March 29, 2011 by GoldenDogs

[alphanguy74]

So.... i'm dying to know the going rates in California, how much does your gardener charge you? The thing that pisses me off, is that I've had people every once in a while balk at my price, and tell me it's too much. All of the larger companies in this area charge 50$ a man hour, and they just send out a crew of mexicans to do the work. I charge 20$ a man hour, and I had one guy (who was a consevative republican attorney)go with illegal alien labor rather than pay my rate which was less than every other company in town. That's why nothing ever gets done about the immigration problem, the wealthy don't want to let go of any of their cheap labor. Believe it or not, I rarely work for, and actually AVOID the rich, because in my experience... they have by and large been very cheap, and try to screw you at every turn. I work almost exclusively for middle class soccer moms and their families, and never have trouble with people being cheap or not paying me. Many times they are on a budget, but we always work together for an acceptable solution, they don't try to get something for nothing.... I do my work in "stages", and people like that.

[GoldenDogs]

Hey Alpha...

Sorry for the delay in responding... I haven't been around here much lately the past week...

Anyway, the past few gardeners have sort of inherited the previous rate charged, which was $80 a month. That is actually pretty low considering what I know others are charging... But it is ONLY for cutting the grass and occasional weed and feed (which he screwed up and did apply pre-emergence at the proper time and we've got weeds now). The previous gardener charged $80 for both cutting the grass and maintaining flowerbeds, but he wasn't maintaining the flowerbeds... It's been a mess. But I agreed with the current to just cut grass for $80 and we would take care of the flowerbeds ourselves. I would pay what it was worth to get a top-notch gardener or service... but two gardening services we inquired wouldn't call us back or show up to quote service. I'm the sort of guy who will happily pay more to get more...

But to better answer the question of going rates... I think anywhere from $150 to $200 and higher a month for basic gardening here in the Central Valley is probably more accurate... the current gardener would take on our flowerbeds for $120-$130 a month but I chose not to bit since I'm not 100% happy with what he's doing now. Why pay more for mediocre? If I lived by you, Alpha, I'd gladly pay you for the quality of work you describe... Hell ya... worth it.

Mind you, the above-prices are for a more accesably-priced region of California... Southern California? I'm sure it is WAY MORE...

Brian

[DRW50]

It looks like Scott Walker and the WIGOP's power grab cost them the Milwaukee County Executive's office, and also, very possibly, a state supreme court seat.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/119308059.html

And of course, the governor uses the same class warfare stuff we know so well.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/04/walker-blames-madison-for-supreme-court-election.php?ref=fpblg

[quartermainefan]

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/77rtyQf6Hwk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[DRW50]

This is what fiscal conservatives are doing with your tax money.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/19/house-republicans-500k-defense-marriage-act_n_851035.html

[DRW50]

I don't understand why Obama decided to make a production about releasing his birth certificate. The people who don't believe it still won't, and the people who do will either think this is too much, or they will wonder if he's hiding something.