The Politics Thread

[AdelaideCate007]

 

I can't imagine what American teachers are dealing with. My 13 year old sister was telling me today that some American expat kid at school told her that Trump was just the beginning, that he message was going to spread worldwide now that the leader of America agrees with them, to be prepared for the "others" to "go back to where they came from", and that they weren't going to be welcome in America anymore. If this is what kids are hearing here, I don't even want to know what they're saying over there. It's just almost too sad and upsetting at this point.

[Vee]

He's still tweeting:

 

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Vee

[Khan]

 

No.  Absolutely not.  Trump should not be impeached.  As a matter of fact, nothing -- and I mean NOTHING -- should deter him from serving the full 4-8 years.  (I'm serious, Trump better not get so much as a paper cut.)  Why?  Because, that would leave Mike Pence to run this country; and a Pence presidency, IMO, would result in outright genocide.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Khan

[cassadine1991]

You don't think Pence will have some influence over Trump?

[AdelaideCate007]

"A good man with a good awesome heart that traveled the world feeding the kids"

 

https://twitter.com/calmsnbc/status/796909844225736704

[quartermainefan]

I have to say the last two days Trump has been on his best behavior.   After all these years bashing Obama and the year and a half trashing Hillary, he has had only nice things to say about both, and I want to hope that now that he won he is dropping the rabid persona he needed to win.   He was a democrat up until fairly recently, and maybe some of that is seeping back in.  There's no more talk of throwing Hillary in jail, he thanked her for her years of service, he said he would call on Obama for counsel and it was an honor to meet him...I hope whatever has led him to be civil continues.    It was only a year ago Trump was saying he liked the medical system in Scotland.   Clearly that doesn't play in republican elections, but now that he's won maybe he wants to revisit that.   I think it would be easier for Trump to get a socialized - current hybrid than it would have been for Hillary or Bernie because it would be coming from someone not seen as a tax hiking commie lefty.

 

I agree with whoever said you don't want Trump impeached.   Mike Pence is bad news of the highest order.  

 

The more I think about it, the dems made a mistake and should have gone with Bernie.  He had the same change agent aspect Trump did, he had the millennials and the same mega rallies Trump did.  I think he just needed some way to reach out to black and latino voters and he would have been good to go.  I honestly don't remember why he was so resoundingly rejected in the south.  

[Vee]

I'll just let others answer that.

[DeeeDee]

LOL

[DramatistDreamer]

People's praise of Megyn Kelly (as their praise of Ana Navarro) was definitely misplaced. Kelly sat on all this information until after the election, then tells all. I have no respect for them or those of their ilk.

[cassadine1991]

@quartermainefan You really think that if weren't going to vote for a woman, they'd go for what they view him as a Jewish socialist?

[MissLlanviewPA]

 

I wish Ana hadn't revealed her vote for Hillary so late, and I have no doubt that a lot of her #NeverTrump status has to do with his merciless mocking of her former boss Jeb Bush, but she was loud and proud about her distaste for Trump pretty early on. 

[Vee]

Navarro I'm cool with until she becomes a Trump booster. Megyn Kelly has never been our friend, she was only the enemy of our enemy. Megyn Kelly will adjust to this situation accordingly with no adverse effect on her life.

[marceline]

 

Two reasons:

 

One, the South is the Bible Belt and he's Jewish. If you don't think that matters ask Kurt Eichenwald how Trump's supporters treat Jews. They sent him pictures of his child photoshopped in a gas chamber.

 

Two: Because the south is filled with black voters who saw Bernie for what he is: a privileged [!@#$%^&*] who has never really cared about our issues and has been perfectly happy to sit up in lily white Vermont and rename post offices. Tom Joyner is still talking about all the times Bernie canceled on him because he couldn't be bothered to actually talk to black people on our media. All I had to do to turn an entire beauty shop against the man was mention that he wanted someone to primary Obama after his first term.

 

Make no mistake, the millennials would've turned out for him but those black turnout numbers in the 90s that Hillary got? Bernie would be lucky to get half that especially given the rampant racism of his BernioBros.

[Vee]

The problem is that while I agree with all of that, the fact is that someone with Sanders' populist fire - while such a thing may be an easy crutch - would likely have gotten at least some of the rest of our vote out. As distasteful as I presently find it to reach out to that bloc of lapsed or spooked voters in the midwest, and to the unenthused (and spoiled) younger millennials who have only known Obama and Bernie, we didn't get them, and we will need all of them to find our way out of this. That's me taking a hard, sober look at things.

We can blame the media, and I absolutely do, for normalizing Trump and framing Hillary's emails as some major issue while not focusing on policy or issues or her long record of service. I think she is an exceptional leader and would be an exceptional president. But it's impossible for me to come away from this year after the last few days and still say she was the right choice at the right time. She was the right choice at the wrong time, and we didn't see it or didn't want to deal with the problems that are systemic that we now have to face: The quietly ignorant, racist or just afraid bloc of white votes in the base that turned on us either because they were scared of the changing (re: less white) world, or because they didn't like Hillary, or because they didn't like a woman, or because the economy has not recovered fast enough for them. These are all key reasons but the existential anxiety over a changing non-white/male world is, IMO, the central one that ties all the others together. And we (the royal we, that is - I wouldn't blame any voter of color for walking away) have to find a way to swallow our anger and disgust, and instead educate and eventually embrace them.

 

We also now have to face up to the lackadaisical millennial voters who don't realize not every election is transformational, and we have to educate them and offer up an at least superficially more transformational candidate. But it's not just window dressing, because honestly we do have to reform the party platform and machinery to account more for the issues Sanders did bring up, even when they were frankly his only issues. And we have to directly address the things we didn't get done soon enough, even when we had IMO very valid reasons that were not all under our control. We have to have honest conversations with the younger people and the far left about that that isn't just dismissng each other even when we really want to (and oh God how I do). We also have to re-address racism and bigotry with the middle American vote, as opposed to just dismissing them and sectioning them off, because that's how we got here. We have to help them understand they're not losing their country. That's the only way we get these votes back.

 

We have to fight harder for things we thought weren't feasible and we have to make at least some of them our primary platforms, and we have to push more for candidates who are further to the left, or push more centrist candidates back there. Not all the way, but we're going to have to find a way to wed the populist streak that is the primary concern of the white affluent progressive or the white anxious Middle American with the actual, real social concerns of the voters of color, the queer voters, and so forth. And that means we're going to have to talk to people a lot of us really don't feel like talking to this week. Including Bernie kids. Because they and others will be looking to him for the driving spirit forward, and they will be at least partly right, because whatever any of us think of him and I certainly think less than I used to, many of his principles and goals are things I can agree with.

 

But we don't have to do all of that today.

 

On a slightly brighter note, Trump has just discovered the presidency will leave him muzzled. Following that earlier tweet, here's a later one, diametrically opposed:

 

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by Vee

[Khan]

 

I think Pence WILL have influence over Trump, but only up to a point.  We know Trump has the IQ and attention span of a dart.  We ALSO know Trump listens only to others when it serves his interests.  If Pence cannot distract President (A)me(rica) from whatever shiny object is pleasing him at the moment to focus on his agenda (which includes, among other atrocities, [!@#$%^&*]-canning Roe v. Wade and pummeling the LGBTQ community into heteronormalcy), then we live to fight another day.

 

The way I see it (and yes, I know, I'm probably wrong)...

 

Healthcare reform (meaning, of course, Obamacare) is toast.  Obamacare won't be repealed outright.  However, the program will be hit with so many restrictions and revisions that it will be as good as dead.  Furthermore, I think the American people (or at least the ones who stand by Trump) will learn rather quickly that when it comes to alternatives, the emperor truly wears no clothes.

 

Foreign relations, trade relations and immigration policies are in peril.  Trump's Great Wall of Mexico will not happen, but everything else...?  We'll just have to cross our fingers and pray.

 

Climate change responses are officially closed subjects, as are criminal justice reforms.  (The earth is not burning, and Black lives don't matter.  Accept it.)

 

Reproductive and LGBTQ civil rights will take some hits.  Frankly, Trump's victory, which ensures a Supreme Court that will lean toward the conservative, means the next generation will have to take up those causes.  Nevertheless, I don't believe these issues are high on Trump's list of priorities.  (Again, they don't exactly serve his interests).  Therefore, their core principles (meaning, Roe v. Wade and marriage equality) will remain intact (much to Mike Pence's everlasting chagrin).

 

"The economy" (tax reforms, entitlement reforms, jobs creation, etc.) is pretty much the heart of Trump's whole scheme -- and IMO, it's where he will do the most damage, too.  But, you know, maybe that is what needs to happen.  Like Roman said upthread: Trump's supporters are about to learn the hard way how much worse off they'll actually be once Trump implements his so-called strategies.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Khan