Hey, I didn't start it. And there is no need for that language WorldTurner.

I'm not referring specifically to you.

There's some people in this thread who just won't stop posting the same thing about certain actors and characters week after week. If the character/actor wasn't on a certain day's episode, then I don't see why they warrant many posts. This occurs every week and it's always about the same characters/actors. We get the point people, and I feel the same way, but let it go already. There's no use in repeating the same s-hit week after week.

I understand if that character/actor is on an episode or something, but if they're not and people are just posting generally about them, what purpose does it serve, especially if it's being done week after week? Frankly, stuff like that has been clogging up these Y&R weekly threads for far too long. If people want to discuss that on a more thorough basis, then I suggest they go to the Love/Hate forum. Let the majority of this thread be about the damn show.

I don't like Lily, Cane, Colleen, and the actors who portray them. But if they're not on this week or in a day's particular episode, I don't see why I have to discuss them, since they'd have no connection to a particular episode or week.

Well, in all fairness, Lily/Cane WERE on the US Tuesday show. While I am not a fan of them, I do feel that elevator episode was an unusually strong one for the two of them. Not just because of the couple, but because of what it set up in terms of Billy being "in the know" about all the key elements of the tale (Chloe's carrying HIS baby; Cane REALLY still loves Lily). He also heard that her online ID is "Fallout Girl".

It suggests to me Billy will make a play for Lily...although I am not yet sure how that will further his agenda.

Well, in all fairness, Lily/Cane WERE on the US Tuesday show.

Did you read my post?

My problem is these threads tend to discuss everything but the show itself. We get lost in posts about certain actresses that we don't bother discussing the show, after all, this is a weekly discussion thread for the show itself. Also, we seem to run into the same problems week after week, when those who dislike certain actresses argue with others who like those actresses. It's like beating a dead horse...

Did you read my post?

My problem is these threads tend to discuss everything but the show itself. We get lost in posts about certain actresses that we don't bother discussing the show, after all, this is a weekly discussion thread for the show itself. Also, we seem to run into the same problems week after week, when those who dislike certain actresses argue with others who like those actresses. It's like beating a dead horse...

I agree, but to be honest if people would just not reply to things they dont want discuss or just put people they feel add nothing to the convo or dont like on ignore, a lot of the problems would go away.

Loved the Chloe/Billy scenes and their meeting in flasbhacks, then at the end, "I never expected to fall your father." YES!! The script was fine too, so this was a good start for Amanda Beall.

Yeah, I also agree that the production was very good in this episode.

I loved that part too! I'm so feelin' Chloe. EH is really a great addition to this show.

Regarding the scriptwriters, doesn't Y&R have alot of them right now? It seems they have a much larger writing staff than other shows, so I'm wondering if these writers are just on a trial basis to see how MAB/HS like them? Anyone have some insight into this?

Paul Rauch, IMO, is starting off well. If he keeps this going, I think things will only get better.

Word.

Every fuckin' week...

So true.

I don't like Lily, Cane, Colleen, and the actors who portray them. But if they're not on this week or in a day's particular episode, I don't see why I have to discuss them, since they'd have no connection to a particular episode or week.

Mmmm Hmmmm. ICAM.

Edited October 8, 200817 yr by Greg's GL

Did you read my post?

My problem is these threads tend to discuss everything but the show itself. We get lost in posts about certain actresses that we don't bother discussing the show, after all, this is a weekly discussion thread for the show itself. Also, we seem to run into the same problems week after week, when those who dislike certain actresses argue with others who like those actresses. It's like beating a dead horse...

So much word... Couple that with a couple of obnoxious trolls who spread the poison and you get one big, great piece of weekly thread.

But this also show how much this show is actually... Mediocre or bland. 

Well. Based on yesterday's US episode which did feature Cane and Lily, I actually... liked them. For the first time, as a pairing. Bash away if you must. Somebody must have told the actors to pull up their socks because CK actually expressed emotion -- and it wasn't boredom. Paul Rauch, is that your doing?

All in all, I loved yesterday's episode, Y&R has often used the stalled elevator as soapy fodder. And the Phyllis/Nick and Jack/Sharon scenes felt like the closing of a chapter. Phyllis's true colours are emerging -- I'm waiting for her to start turning Nick against Noah any day now. Sharon is still clinging on to what she can't have.. and Jack STILL cannot sell to me any of his love scenes. PB has great chemistry with family (John, Ashley, Traci, Billy) and adopted sons (Nick, Adam). But he cannot do romantic scenes.

Chloe/Billy flashback was interesting -- and *so* Chloe.

Well. Based on yesterday's US episode which did feature Cane and Lily, I actually... liked them. For the first time, as a pairing. Bash away if you must. Somebody must have told the actors to pull up their socks because CK actually expressed emotion -- and it wasn't boredom. Paul Rauch, is that your doing?

All in all, I loved yesterday's episode, Y&R has often used the stalled elevator as soapy fodder. And the Phyllis/Nick and Jack/Sharon scenes felt like the closing of a chapter. Phyllis's true colours are emerging -- I'm waiting for her to start turning Nick against Noah any day now. Sharon is still clinging on to what she can't have.. and Jack STILL cannot sell to me any of his love scenes. PB has great chemistry with family (John, Ashley, Traci, Billy) and adopted sons (Nick, Adam). But he cannot do romantic scenes.

Chloe/Billy flashback was interesting -- and *so* Chloe.

word to everything.

CK has actually been impressing me a bit over the last 2 weeks, idk where its coming from but i hope it lasts. i am lving that the real phyliss is coming out. and you are so right about PB - great family chem, no romantic chem.

and Jack STILL cannot sell to me any of his love scenes. PB has great chemistry with family (John, Ashley, Traci, Billy) and adopted sons (Nick, Adam). But he cannot do romantic scenes.

IA with you about PB. He needs someone with mad sex appeal (and I don't put Red in that category) because he brings nothing to the table.

Did you read my post?

My problem is these threads tend to discuss everything but the show itself. We get lost in posts about certain actresses that we don't bother discussing the show, after all, this is a weekly discussion thread for the show itself. Also, we seem to run into the same problems week after week, when those who dislike certain actresses argue with others who like those actresses. It's like beating a dead horse...

I did read :-). But I also know you are frustrated.

I agree, but to be honest if people would just not reply to things they dont want discuss or just put people they feel add nothing to the convo or dont like on ignore, a lot of the problems would go away.

It is a combination. We all need to be tolerant, but there may be some dead-horse beating here. For example (just teasing..I hope you know that Sylph):

So much word... Couple that with a couple of obnoxious trolls who spread the poison and you get one big, great piece of weekly thread.

But this also show how much this show is actually... Mediocre or bland. 

I truly do not concur that the show is mediocre or bland. Or, said differently, I believe the show is really quite close to the original formula again...which is steady, progressive, cumulative, relationship-base, history-based. Most days are build. Most days establish relationship and character. Then, SUDDENLY, there are explosive days.

For example, yesterday's Kevin-Jana-Daniel-Amber scenes in the coffee house could surely be called "filler". But I disagree HEARTILY. I find those scenes invaluable because they set up (a) continuing emotion between Daniel and Amber; ( possible foreshadowing of Daniel's arc; © suspense regarding Amber and the "secret" she is keeping...was this meant for AMBER??; (d) growing tension between Kevin and Jana during his turn to the darkside. Couple that with bona fide humor and bonhomie....and you can call it "tedious", or you can call it a good maintenance scene in a drama that is willing to spend some time on character development and plot establishment. I LOVED it. Those were my favorite scenes.

I would take this, HAND OVER FIST, over the "oh look, !@#$%^&*] is on General Hospital; oh look, Jared has found Natalie in the basement". Both of these events are entertaining...but they are plot-plot-plot. I don't get to know those characters on any kind of deeper level. Y&R is again being written for its' classic fans. Perhaps you NEVER enjoyed Y&R? Perhaps you ALWAYS found it mediocre and bland? Many people did? I feel it is again what it always ways. It moves at a different pace, and you have to SURRENDER to it.

Y&R is not a show to watch while working on the computer or cooking dinner or whatever. Then you miss the scenic design, the subtle glances, the turns of phrase. It is on these things that Y&R turns. So, if you are working on the computer or whatever, you're taking a very surface view of the show. As a consequence, only plot can grab your attention. In a typical episode of Y&R, there is not so much of that attention-grabbing plot.

Well. Based on yesterday's US episode which did feature Cane and Lily, I actually... liked them. For the first time, as a pairing. Bash away if you must. Somebody must have told the actors to pull up their socks because CK actually expressed emotion -- and it wasn't boredom. Paul Rauch, is that your doing?

All in all, I loved yesterday's episode, Y&R has often used the stalled elevator as soapy fodder. And the Phyllis/Nick and Jack/Sharon scenes felt like the closing of a chapter. Phyllis's true colours are emerging -- I'm waiting for her to start turning Nick against Noah any day now. Sharon is still clinging on to what she can't have.. and Jack STILL cannot sell to me any of his love scenes. PB has great chemistry with family (John, Ashley, Traci, Billy) and adopted sons (Nick, Adam). But he cannot do romantic scenes.

Chloe/Billy flashback was interesting -- and *so* Chloe.

I enjoyed the episode, and agree with much of what you saw. Cane and Lily *worked* in that elevator because they played longing. But, ultimately, Khalil's lack of emotional range and the age/experience mismatch consistently derails that couple. Lily had a LOT more chemistry with Daniel the other day (when she was decrying Colleen stealing her life). That was the rootable couple. I think a Lily-Daniel-Amber triangle would still have legs, because it sets up the dichotomy between Daniel's heart and his groin. The thing is...both women lay some claim to both those parts of him.

For Cane, I really think the dynamic that would be sexy and fun is Billy-Sharon (smoking chemistry the other day) Cane-Phyllis. They all seem like real men and women, and I'd enjoy that dynamic much more.

and Jack STILL cannot sell to me any of his love scenes. PB has great chemistry with family (John, Ashley, Traci, Billy) and adopted sons (Nick, Adam). But he cannot do romantic scenes.

IA with you about PB. He needs someone with mad sex appeal (and I don't put Red in that category) because he brings nothing to the table.

You are right. But I wonder why this is true.

PB was AWESOME as the tortured, innocent man in the Cliff-Nina romance on AMC. It was legendary. I think that was because Cliff was "heroic", and his sappy nature fit that character well.

Since PB's take on romance is "sappy", it only works when he is in a "true love" situation. Unfortunately, Jack is a cynical bastard and reformed playboy...so sappy doesn't work. This was the basis for much of the early dislike of PB's recasting as Jack Abbott. He simply COULD NOT PLAY the "sexy rascal" that Terry Lester so brilliantly evoked. Consequently, it was only when PB reformed the character as "loving son and brother" with "Palmer-Cortlandt style nasty-mouth" when it comes to his enemies that the character took off (for me, anyway).

I honestly think they should mostly keep Jack OUT of relationships...or show that he is having them for sex only. That way, he doesn't have to play sappy-romantic, and he can focus on what he does well.

I truly do not concur that the show is mediocre or bland. Or, said differently, I believe the show is really quite close to the original formula again...which is steady, progressive, cumulative, relationship-base, history-based. Most days are build. Most days establish relationship and character. Then, SUDDENLY, there are explosive days.

For example, yesterday's Kevin-Jana-Daniel-Amber scenes in the coffee house could surely be called "filler". But I disagree HEARTILY. I find those scenes invaluable because they set up (a) continuing emotion between Daniel and Amber; ( possible foreshadowing of Daniel's arc; © suspense regarding Amber and the "secret" she is keeping...was this meant for AMBER??; (d) growing tension between Kevin and Jana during his turn to the darkside. Couple that with bona fide humor and bonhomie....and you can call it "tedious", or you can call it a good maintenance scene in a drama that is willing to spend some time on character development and plot establishment. I LOVED it. Those were my favorite scenes.

I would take this, HAND OVER FIST, over the "oh look, !@#$%^&*] is on General Hospital; oh look, Jared has found Natalie in the basement". Both of these events are entertaining...but they are plot-plot-plot. I don't get to know those characters on any kind of deeper level. Y&R is again being written for its' classic fans. Perhaps you NEVER enjoyed Y&R? Perhaps you ALWAYS found it mediocre and bland? Many people did? I feel it is again what it always ways. It moves at a different pace, and you have to SURRENDER to it.

Y&R is not a show to watch while working on the computer or cooking dinner or whatever. Then you miss the scenic design, the subtle glances, the turns of phrase. It is on these things that Y&R turns. So, if you are working on the computer or whatever, you're taking a very surface view of the show. As a consequence, only plot can grab your attention. In a typical episode of Y&R, there is not so much of that attention-grabbing plot.

WORD to all of this. I tape and watch Y&R everyday. I know it is different strokes for different folks but, for me, Y&R is closer now to old school Y&R than even some of Jack Smith's tenure. Even with its slower episodes recently, I have enjoyed them because, as you say, there is the feeling that groundwork is being laid for current and future SLs.

I think what I love about Y&R is the care that is being taken with so much of it right now -- dialogue, direction, most of the acting, most of the history. Even GH looks somehow cobbled together in a hurry.

I enjoyed the episode, and agree with much of what you saw. Cane and Lily *worked* in that elevator because they played longing. But, ultimately, Khalil's lack of emotional range and the age/experience mismatch consistently derails that couple. Lily had a LOT more chemistry with Daniel the other day (when she was decrying Colleen stealing her life). That was the rootable couple. I think a Lily-Daniel-Amber triangle would still have legs, because it sets up the dichotomy between Daniel's heart and his groin. The thing is...both women lay some claim to both those parts of him.

For Cane, I really think the dynamic that would be sexy and fun is Billy-Sharon (smoking chemistry the other day) Cane-Phyllis. They all seem like real men and women, and I'd enjoy that dynamic much more.

I have to say, I "felt" the kiss he gave Lily in the elevator -- something which has bever occurred to me before when it comes to Lane! A lot of that was from DG -- the way he held her face and stroked back her hair. When CK moved her arm to pull him in closer, it seemed like she was "getting" Lily, too. Having said that, I am fully ready for another emotionless Scene of Uncomfortableness between the two.

You are right. But I wonder why this is true.

PB was AWESOME as the tortured, innocent man in the Cliff-Nina romance on AMC. It was legendary. I think that was because Cliff was "heroic", and his sappy nature fit that character well.

Since PB's take on romance is "sappy", it only works when he is in a "true love" situation. Unfortunately, Jack is a cynical bastard and reformed playboy...so sappy doesn't work. This was the basis for much of the early dislike of PB's recasting as Jack Abbott. He simply COULD NOT PLAY the "sexy rascal" that Terry Lester so brilliantly evoked. Consequently, it was only when PB reformed the character as "loving son and brother" with "Palmer-Cortlandt style nasty-mouth" when it comes to his enemies that the character took off (for me, anyway).

I honestly think they should mostly keep Jack OUT of relationships...or show that he is having them for sex only. That way, he doesn't have to play sappy-romantic, and he can focus on what he does well.

PB, it seems to me, is noticeably uncomfortable with the love scenes. For a long while, Y&R had a big problem with its love scenes in the 90s and early part of this decade -- almost as if TPTB were embarrassed about asking their Great Actors to emote or imply orgasms or physical longing. It's not just with Sharon -- I remember Jack trying to play sexy with Jill, and me actually wincing at the scenes.

As for the sap (a Bell trait), I can't really watch those either. PB's Jack is a bit of a blowhard in group scenes (and I am totally willing to accept him as such) -- he is the type of country-club-attending, Harvard-tie wearing, wealthy scion who ADORES being the Master of Ceremonies and listening to the sound of his own voice. PB's voice always dominates in those group scenes, I have found. That's why the sap always comes off as insincere -- because Jack comes off as a bit of a loudmouth and a gossip. Not saying PB is LOL, just saying that is what Jack is now, and it fits in with his character history. Terry Lester's Jack was much quieter, like a snake about to strike. More flirtatious, too. More devilish, as he tempted GC's young fillies to ditch their dull boyfriends for a roll in the hay with him. I don't know if PB's Jack could ever bring himself to have slept with Jill, his father's wife, at one time. You know?

PB and Jerry Douglas? Sometimes Bergman can touch me with a well-chosen glistening in his eyes. Jack misses and worships his father so much, and that is very palpable and moving.

I truly do not concur that the show is mediocre or bland. Or, said differently, I believe the show is really quite close to the original formula again...which is steady, progressive, cumulative, relationship-base, history-based. Most days are build. Most days establish relationship and character. Then, SUDDENLY, there are explosive days.

A show can have all that and still suck. That's just necessary but not enough. Stories just... Fall flat. But it's only me, you have different views and expectations, you'll love this show even if it sucks plain bad.

A show can have all that and still suck. That's just necessary but not enough. Stories just... Fall flat. But it's only me, you have different views and expectations, you'll love this show even if it sucks plain bad.

No offense, but can I ask why you watch? Cause, if I don't like something, I simply don't watch.. lol I gave up DAYS many times in the history (whenever I didn't like it), I gave up GH, I gave up GL, I even gave up Y&R during LML's tenure. So I'm just wondering why watch something you clearly get no entertainment from.

Oh and Mark, I completely agree with what you said! And OMG, I even watch Amber scenes now! I actually like most of the stuff going on right now. It has me really entertained!

A show can have all that and still suck. That's just necessary but not enough. Stories just... Fall flat. But it's only me, you have different views and expectations, you'll love this show even if it sucks plain bad.

Ugh...you wound me, accusing me of such mindless idolatry.

I don't think you're right, but you'll see. B&B, for example, cannot hold my loyalty. It has just become too bad.

Ugh...you wound me, accusing me of such mindless idolatry.

I don't think you're right, but you'll see. B&B, for example, cannot hold my loyalty. It has just become too bad.

But that's because you never took B&B seriously, you cannot be called a fan of B&B the same way sheilaforever, JamesF, Ben, crc are. You often enjoy yourself enormously when Y&R is "better" than B&B and at every turn you make it your point to emphasise it.

Part of my problem is that I don't like what to me is excessive praise and very long-winded. And I make it my point to criticise what I don't like; of course, people will then start asking you all sorts of questions and accuse you of being to negative. Couldn't care less...

People will sing all sorts of superficial praise (great shots, "classic" feel [whatever that means], subtle set-ups etc.), but in reality - there is very little there.