I've not been glued to it like I was for the BE takeover and Nash's death.

However I wouldn't go clamoring for Carlivati's firing. He's shown he understands the characters and their flaws, but somewhere along the way for the anniversary, he lost his way and has been struggling to get the show back together. So I'm going to wait and see if it can pull me back in. It hasn't today.

Totally agree. I try to at least scan the ABC lineup on Soapnet each night. As a Y&R fan, I'm here to say OLTL is absolutely the MOST interesting.

Exactly....

I am kind of disturbed on how fast people have turned on this guy. It kind of proves the daytime industry right. They are damned if they do damned if they don't. They actually go and promote someone from within, someone who knows the history and isn't burnt out, and then the minute something goes wrong they are ready to crucify him. I kind of sympathize with TPTB to a certain extent on that regard. I am not watching so I can't comment on the storylines, but I find it very hard to believe he has went from saviour to devil in all of a month. Some fans just need to give things some time....

I totally agree. Don't forget the strike mucked up things too. I'm starting to think (for all soaps) people wan't PERFECTION all the time. Soaps are basically produced in real time--an expressway assembly line. Under those deplorable conditions, we need to hope that much of it is entertaining and watchable. OLTL passes that test. These shows CANNOT be compared to features or primetime...the conditions just aren't right.

Also, the 40th anniversary derailed RC and team. Even there, it was highly entertaining...but campy and eyerolling. But some of that spectacle was undoubtedly a mandate from above.

This kind of talk DOES get to the networks. Do you REALLY want to gamble on someone else, rather than someone who loves the show? I don't...

I agree that putting Gigi/Rex together so fast was a big mistake. They should've put Gigi/Brody together first and play the Gigi/Rex angst/longing for many more months.

So, for me...not so invested in the show... I like the chemistry between Gigi/Rex...it draws me in. And brooding Brody is compelling.

I will confess, though, I participate in a board that finds Brody SUPER-compelling...for reasons related to those massive thighs...and...well...the whole package. (Those parallel shower scenes earned high praise, including many comparable comparisons to HBO). I realize this is off topic, but what I'm saying is that this is a product that entertains me and doesn't make me feel stupid. (As opposed to, say, B&.

I am watching Marty and Todd closely. I did see the gang rape...but I'm watching what they're playing NOW. I am ESPECIALLY watching TSJ. And it is AMAZING. The play of emotions that man lets ripple, naturally across his face. If you put yourself in Marty's shoes ("tabula rasa"), there is a remarkably compelling thing brewing between Marty and Todd. That it is sick is ... well...that is the reality of it. That is what will make the explosion so riveting...and a little painful.

Because (cue cliche) the opposite of love is not hate. And you begin to see that Todd and Marty have some deep stuff between them. Haskell is such a competent performer too...it elevates the thing, for me.

I'm even digging John these days.

But they should be fired for low ratings: you don't keep a CEO who's producing loss for your company. At least in that wasy, you're trying to do something. The bigger problem here is Frons... But we told that tale a million times.

Cannot agree.

Frons is DOING WHAT HE CAN to bring eyeballs to the genre. His methodology may be wrong...but dammit, he's TRYING. He's now even putting money where his mouth is.

And in the current climate, it would be foolish to fire anyone for low ratings. They are all low. It would only make sense to fire someone for producing a ratings trajectory that shows a CONSISTENTLY steeper decline trend than other soaps. (Example of that, right now, is GL. But we know GL won't see any firings because it is on the cancellation track...therefore no new investments or major changes). Is OLTL experiencing a faster-than-average decline? No. Does the current team have recent evidence of creative strength (indicating potential)? Yes.

I feel very uncomfortable with this thread. Honestly (and I know this is over-dramatic, but it is how I feel) is feels like "tar and feather" or "lynch".

Of course not. RC may not be writing as good of stories as he was in months past, but I still like the show. He's miles better than Higley.

Sorry but yes Carlivati is a hack

LMFAO. What a surprise.

I think Ron needs a decent Co-HW to balance out his weakest tendencies...

If he didn't win that Emmy, I'm sure he would've went the way of B&E when Frons was ready to clean house. That Emmy bought him some time, but with ratings not going up, I do think his job is in jeopardy. Carlivati doesn't have the same rep with Frons that Guza has.

No, no co-HWs. That would only placate things a bit. You don't put a bandage on a wound that's bleeding heavily.

I think Ron needs a decent Co-HW to balance out his weakest tendencies...

If he didn't win that Emmy, I'm sure he would've went the way of B&E when Frons was ready to clean house. That Emmy bought him some time, but with ratings not going up, I do think his job is in jeopardy. Carlivati doesn't have the same rep with Frons that Guza has.

nah.

NOBODY'S ratings are going UP. At best, they are staying flat. (But Y&R has seemingly permanently lost even its' claim to 4.0...and certainly 4.5).

The ONLY reason to worry is if a show's ratings decline faster than usual. That is not the case here.

Frons would be FOOLISH to sacrifice this. I'm not even sure RC needs a co-HW. (There are already too many diluted visions on soaps).

What needs to happen is USEFUL feedback. Frons or someone really needs to engage in a MEASURED analysis of "what is working; what is not", and offer guidance to the HW. He can then incorporate that. I understand that this is not how the "suits" work...but that is what is needed. I COULD imagine an EXCELLENT consultant offering feedback, but definitely not a co-HW.

I actually really like OLTL these days. I think Tess being back is great, she's hilarious - and even if what she's doing to Natalie is wrong, it's a LOT of fun to watch. I think they are taking Marty/Todd to far, but the chemistry between Susan and Trevor is excellent. I'm glad Rex finally knows about Shane, and this drama with Brody should be pretty good. Also, Langston/Ray is pretty good, tho A isn't sticking around for long. I'm actually enjoy OLTL a LOT, much more than AMC and sometimes GH.

I totally agree. Don't forget the strike mucked up things too. I'm starting to think (for all soaps) people wan't PERFECTION all the time. Soaps are basically produced in real time--an expressway assembly line. Under those deplorable conditions, we need to hope that much of it is entertaining and watchable. OLTL passes that test. These shows CANNOT be compared to features or primetime...the conditions just aren't right.

The strike has been over for 7+ months now. I think the strike excuse has run its course. I don't think people want perfection, I think they want something they can enjoy and they want characters they can recognize. That isn't happening right now. Not one person (except maybe Tina) is being written in character. Nothing makes sense. Ron inserts people into roles that are needed for the stories he is telling, even if it makes no sense. Why should my standard be lowered just because someone isn't up to the job? Soap fans haven't changed, it is the industry that has changed and until TPTB at ABC Daytime realizes who the consumer is, nothing will change. IMO, OLTL is not entertaining. On the other hand, I think Pratt is doing a great job over at AMC and there are many things that are entertaining and watchable there. That is what a newly appointed head writer does to fix a show.

I haven't given up on the show at all. I think it's had a bad three months which has felt like twelve months, but that's really all it is. Three months. I don't take the complaints of people who stopped watching on the man's first day seriously, and there have been some of those here. I think the Todd and Marty story has some fascinating scenes, and I think they've gone out of their way to show that Todd is wrong, but I also think it has gone way too physical, and verges on exploitative especially in the way it's been promoted. And if they do have sex, I will turn it off. I just don't think they need to keep this going, especially with how disgusted most of the audience it is.

I hate the Tess story though I enjoy Tina in Llanfair. I like the Montez story a lot with Dorian, Langston and Clint, and I think Gigi and Rex are recovering after some lame writing. I hate Starr's pregnancy and John and Blair.

Overall I just want the show to clean house in November and end these bad stories that are dragging it down. And the reason it's important to do it soon is that daytime fans are so abused and beaten down these days that it is easy to lose trust from viewers and never regain it. It's also easy for a mob mentality to form and stick, or for people to jump on a bandwagon and stay there (Sylph). When these stories are over we don't know how many people will come back and try RC again. But I do think he's very talented, and easily the best writer OLTL has had in over ten years. And I still find things I like just about everyday.

Edited September 23, 200817 yr by Vee

He's miles better than Higley.

A hamster on crack is better than Higley. That can't be the standard.

The strike has been over for 7+ months now. I think the strike excuse has run its course. I don't think people want perfection, I think they want something they can enjoy and they want characters they can recognize. That isn't happening right now. Not one person (except maybe Tina) is being written in character. Nothing makes sense. Ron inserts people into roles that are needed for the stories he is telling, even if it makes no sense. Why should my standard be lowered just because someone isn't up to the job? Soap fans haven't changed, it is the industry that has changed and until TPTB at ABC Daytime realizes who the consumer is, nothing will change. IMO, OLTL is not entertaining. On the other hand, I think Pratt is doing a great job over at AMC and there are many things that are entertaining and watchable there. That is what a newly appointed head writer does to fix a show.

The comparison between Pratt and Carlivati is absolutely laughable to me, and I'll tell you exactly why.

Unlike Pratt, RC now has a proven record of at least some period of sustained good work which a great deal of the audience enjoyed. Pratt, OTOH, wrote fun primetime some years ago, but wrote an absolutely horrible GH. So far he's been at AMC what, a couple weeks? Maybe a month? And people are either unhappy or cautiously optimistic. There's a few good casting announcements or ideas, yes. But I have no faith in his ability to sustain it, because I know his work. I already know I hate Rylee and his plans for Jesse the bigamist. I already know I don't care about Colby and I think Jake and Harley, I mean Taylor are over the top. So to compare a few weeks of the typical SON gushfest over a writer who just got in the door to RC is ridiculous. And I'll promise you this, in three or four months, less than six for sure, SON will have soured on Pratt far worse than the RC imbroglio. But no one will remember a word I say.

I thought about giving up two weeks ago, but this week the show has pulled me back in. The best of Ron's stories have been good enough that I'm willing to keep watching...but the bad ones (Mendora, 1968) have been among the worst I've ever seen on OLTL.

I don't think Ron is a hack, and I don't think he should be fired. (He hasn't destroyed the show the way Guza has ruined GH, and if Frons can live with what Guza has done I don't see why Ron would be singled out.)

I'm curious to see what happens during November sweeps; I think that will determine whether I keep watching Ron's OLTL or not.

All I can say about the Marty/Todd storyline, is that I would be offended when Marty does get her memory back and Todd doesn't get his just deserts. However right now the story is still playing out, Marty hasn't gotten her memory back. People are acting as if Marty knows Todd raped her, but said "F--- it I'm going to kiss and fall in love with him anyway.", that just isn't happening right now.

As for Ron/ratings, I don't know what I can honestly say what hasn't been said. It's like saying The Salem Serial Killer on DAYS written by JER was some of the best written material written for a soap, and that's why folks tuned in so much to see that.

People are acting as if Marty knows Todd raped her, but said "F--- it I'm going to kiss and fall in love with him anyway.", that just isn't happening right now.

I disagree. People are "acting" as if a groundbreaking story and a serious subject has been trivialized, twisted and disregarded all in the name of shock and buzz.

IMO OLTL is so much better then Dena.

But With that said....

Ron has lost some of his glitter. He was amazing for the last 8 months. Up to the Todd/Marty stuff and the 1968 SL things have gotten worse. He needs to end the Todd/Marty storyline. People thought that Rebecca Buding's return SL was bad look at Susan Haskill, Marty SL.

But I'm willing to give Ron a chance to fix it.

I've not been glued to it like I was for the BE takeover and Nash's death.

However I wouldn't go clamoring for Carlivati's firing. He's shown he understands the characters and their flaws, but somewhere along the way for the anniversary, he lost his way and has been struggling to get the show back together. So I'm going to wait and see if it can pull me back in. It hasn't today.

I agree. Also I guess right now I feel very much Better the Devil You Know (to quote Miss Minogue). I really think Carlivati is the best we can expect for OLTL asa writer under the current ABC environment.

But that said--I still haven't resorted to FF the show liek I did for nearly every episode that Higley was writing--and while a lot of the show since the SUmmer has left me shaking my head, it's not baffled me as completely as some of the end of Malone's last run did--yeah I like to complain about it, but I also am genuinely enjoying it--I admit.

I am enjoying AMC *far* more under Pratt right now than OLTL under Carlivati--and I disagree with some of your points Vee but I do agree the comparison at the moment is beyond ridiculous. It would only make sense if Pratt started at the same time as Carlivati.

E

I love these threads!!! I think RC is a good writer.......if you scrap the last 10 years of watching the show....Forget these characters ever were who they say they were. If it was one of your favorite characters- "move it along". If you ever wanted to see a character do something off their own motivations instead of because of their pairing- "you a fool". If you watch and spend your days arguing character motivations- stop arguing and just watch for everything you never asked for in a letter or internet protest to happen.

This is a new show that happens to have some of the characters from the show you used to love and their actors on it- with story lines similar to the show you grew up watching. IN fact the writer used to write for that show, and has now started writing a new show that isn't half bad- and in the current soap climate, these stories might pack an occasional punch that will leave you spellbound.