Great rundown @Vee and adding details to episodes I haven't seen in such a long time. I never knew the Empire Valley story got such a negative response - to me espionage plots, no matter how muddled, are more interesting than, say, anything involving Joshua. I feel like viewers of primetime soaps had a very limited stomach for espionage stories though - similar plots flopped on Falcon Crest, Dallas and Dynasty in this period of time. 

I also never knew how uneasy Ava Gardner was at the work. As you mention, you sure couldn't tell onscreen.

@Vee Thanks again for the excellent recaps. The final 10 episodes of season 6 are the peak of the series. 

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I never knew the Empire Valley story got such a negative response - to me espionage plots, no matter how muddled, are more interesting than, say, anything involving Joshua. I feel like viewers of primetime soaps had a very limited stomach for espionage stories though - similar plots flopped on Falcon Crest, Dallas and Dynasty in this period of time. 

As I pointed out before, Knots Landing is more community-based so its not the type of soap you'd expect to venture into action thriller/James Bond territory but I think they got Wolfbridge in season 5 right, Empire Valley started good in season 6 but became a mess in season 7, and Jean Hackney in season 8 was awful.

4 hours ago, titan1978 said:

That perm scene was improvised!  I recall Joan Van Ark talking about it during one of the reunions in the last 20 years.  They decided to add the perm instead of just talking over coffee or something more generic.

That explains a lot. There's a number of scenes that feel like that, and I remember one of the writers talking about adding some funny family business with Karen's boys in either the season 2 or 3 finale to fill time. I suspect that happened a lot. There are a lot of Devane moments that are almost certainly improvised, including one a few eps after where I've written up where Gary comes driving up to Greg's new ranch while Greg is on horseback with a noisy dog at his heels. Before any dialogue begins Devane turns to the dog and says 'shut up!' I cracked up.

5 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Great rundown @Vee and adding details to episodes I haven't seen in such a long time. I never knew the Empire Valley story got such a negative response - to me espionage plots, no matter how muddled, are more interesting than, say, anything involving Joshua. I feel like viewers of primetime soaps had a very limited stomach for espionage stories though - similar plots flopped on Falcon Crest, Dallas and Dynasty in this period of time. 

I also never knew how uneasy Ava Gardner was at the work. As you mention, you sure couldn't tell onscreen.

I liked the Empire Valley story. I don't recall it get negative responses. You couldn't tell by the ratings as they were solid that season.

3 hours ago, kalbir said:

@Vee Thanks again for the excellent recaps. The final 10 episodes of season 6 are the peak of the series. 

As I pointed out before, Knots Landing is more community-based so its not the type of soap you'd expect to venture into action thriller/James Bond territory but I think they got Wolfbridge in season 5 right, Empire Valley started good in season 6 but became a mess in season 7, and Jean Hackney in season 8 was awful.

I still laugh that Ben was afraid of Jean Hackney.😂😂😂

Ben freaking out every time she popped up.😂😂😂😂

11 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Great rundown @Vee and adding details to episodes I haven't seen in such a long time. I never knew the Empire Valley story got such a negative response - to me espionage plots, no matter how muddled, are more interesting than, say, anything involving Joshua. I feel like viewers of primetime soaps had a very limited stomach for espionage stories though - similar plots flopped on Falcon Crest, Dallas and Dynasty in this period of time. 

I would have to go back through the Tommy Krasker and other KL website interviews, because I know a lot of the creative personnel from those years discuss it (and I probably will go back when I hit S7). I think Richard Gollance or one of the other writers also did so in the comments section of Krasker's blog. Basically, from what I recall, the writers didn't entirely know where the EV story was intended to end up under the Dunne regime and when it supposedly went 'too far' in the following season the past team claimed a) it was not their intention, while the new David Paulsen team claimed b) they inherited it and were told by the network and/or David Jacobs to 'get rid of Empire Valley' as a first order of business. The ratings may have been fine, but the creative teams seem to have regarded it as a millstone for whatever reason. So far I have little issue with it as a story; I think it is intriguing and ahead of its time, if starting to get a bit cartoonish in places.

So it's a lot of fog of war, he said/she said on these long-ago details. I will dig back into it soon, but I'm sure others know more than me.

Edited April 2, 20232 yr by Vee

I think the abrupt ending to Empire Valley hurts the overall impression of the story.  Especially after such strong umbrella stories as Wolfbridge and Val’s babies.  So many characters are tied into both of those plots, and their crescendos.  Empire Valley wasn’t the same.

I remember Empire Valley was first mentioned by Karen/Abby at Lotus Point so I was wonder if it was going to be something recreational/environmentally friendly or a real estate venture when it was conceived... and it just went over the top into some Dynasty type of story with no clear idea on where to go.

I think there's a fairly clear idea in Season 6. I can't speak for Season 7 yet. What puzzles me is the S6 team claiming they didn't know where it would end or go.

Edited April 3, 20232 yr by Vee

On 4/1/2023 at 12:50 PM, Soapsuds said:

I liked the Empire Valley story. I don't recall it get negative responses. You couldn't tell by the ratings as they were solid that season.

1984/85 yes, as that season was Knots Landing only Top 10 finish (9th). 1985/86 dropped to 17th, then again all the primetime soaps tanked that season.

Was it always planned for Jill to be crazy?

4 hours ago, allmc2008 said:

Was it always planned for Jill to be crazy?

No, these shows rarely planned for more than one season ahead and considering Jill plotted her revenge towards insufferable Valene and was completely justified in doing so, I doubt it was ever in the pipeline from the start.

5 hours ago, allmc2008 said:

Was it always planned for Jill to be crazy?

During the Laura funeral episode/s... the performers were allowed to do some improvising.

Jill was still mourning her brother that Paige had killed by mistake..so she was at the funeral either drunk or grief stricken with her brothers ashes..and she went at Paige.

Latham and co saw how well Teri Austin played that and decided to make her go crazy as a result.  

That was the rumor I heard awhile back

A fun fact I didn't know, but which was revealed in the new Jane Elliot interview in the April GH thread: She did indeed audition for Abby in Season 2.

Edited April 6, 20232 yr by Vee

I was watching the Dallas episode "The Split" and it featured Val and Gary as well. The outdoor scenes of their house and the kitchen looked fabulous in HD. Ted Shakelford looks very hot in HD😂🔥

Where can I watch the 1997 reunion movie? Any links to a secret YouTube playlist/channel?